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IE lags advanced features with years late. This is hurting web developement. I don't understand how anyone can find this perfectly normal, or even acceptable f

IE lags advanced features with years late. This is hurting web developement. I don't understand how anyone can find this perfectly normal, or even acceptable from a major vendor like microsoft, the company supposed to bring technology into every people's house.

randomdata 14y ago
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious to know why, exactly, it does hurt web development? I believe more people use modern Gecko/WebKit than there are iPhones, yet we'll happily make an entire application that is limited to the just the iPhone device and not think twice. Is this a case of taking statistics too far? To hear that only 50% of the people with web browsers can use your application doesn't sound great, never mind that 50% in real numbers is far greater than 100% of iPhones (or whatever, insert your own example here).
- cageface 14y ago
  This because the iPhone offers a completely different user experience than a desktop browser. IE is just another desktop browser with essentially no intrinsic value over the alternatives.
- valisystem 14y ago
  It does not hurt my web development much, you are totally right. I am more concerned about the fact that the limitations and difficulties brought by browsers I don't use applies also, to me, through the products of other people.
- mtgx 14y ago
  A couple of years ago there was a lot of talk about how the web development advances so much slower than native languages, and that it will take a decade or more before you'll be able to do the things you can with native apps right now. That's exactly what this is about. Microsoft is the one slowing the web development even more now, by not adopting the latest features on time.
  - randomdata 14y ago
    Accurate browser numbers are always hard to come by, but for argument's sake, let's assume: IE: 40%, Mobile: 10%, Other modern desktop browsers: 50% (Numbers based on Wikipedia's browser market share page) Current thinking has us building a website that works for all of those browsers, and then building an optimized version that works better for the 10% of mobile users. I've visited many sites on my mobile devices that are complete rewrites, using browser-specific features, of the regular website, for 10% of the users. Yet, we completely refuse to use features found in 50% of the browsers because Microsoft hasn't implemented them yet. This is where the math falls apart. If resources are limited to two implementations, wouldn't it make more sense to provide a better experience for 50% of the users, and still provide the basic version for Microsoft/mobile users? If 10% of users are enough to warrant a completely different website version as has been demonstrated with the rise of mobile users, then why not build three variants? One mobile, one old web technology version, and then one using bleeding edge technologies? What is it about Microsoft's latency in feature implementations that you speak to that prevents the latter version from even being considered?
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  To make money through a website you (typically) need to put disgusting ads on it (apart from actually making the site and service). To make money in the app store, you create the app (and service) and sell it. I like the latter a whole lot more than the idea of putting banners and ads on my website. I get your point, and agree with it to a certain extent; i just wanted to point out that mobile development (iOS, and to a lesser extent Android) and web apps are not necessarily very similar from a business perspective[1] and that sometimes it makes sense to target 1 million iOS users instead of 60 million web users. [1]: Of course, you can sell subscription on web too. It's just that far more people are willing to purchase a $5 Instapaper app on the app store (or upgrade their account for $1/month to search within their saved articles through in-app purchase, that literally requires two click (and entering your password), than there are people who would give you their credit card number to purchase your web service.
  - randomdata 14y ago
    Some good points. However, I made a follow up post (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4233820 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4233820) that sticks to just the web browser domain, negating any gains that may come from alternative business models. Even when mobile web usage is relatively small, business are still generally putting in a lot of effort to build mobile-specific pages.

randomdata 14y ago

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious to know why, exactly, it does hurt web development? I believe more people use modern Gecko/WebKit than there are iPhones, yet we'll happily make an entire application that is limited to the just the iPhone device and not think twice. Is this a case of taking statistics too far? To hear that only 50% of the people with web browsers can use your application doesn't sound great, never mind that 50% in real numbers is far greater than 100% of iPhones (or whatever, insert your own example here).

cageface 14y ago
This because the iPhone offers a completely different user experience than a desktop browser. IE is just another desktop browser with essentially no intrinsic value over the alternatives.
valisystem 14y ago
It does not hurt my web development much, you are totally right. I am more concerned about the fact that the limitations and difficulties brought by browsers I don't use applies also, to me, through the products of other people.
mtgx 14y ago
A couple of years ago there was a lot of talk about how the web development advances so much slower than native languages, and that it will take a decade or more before you'll be able to do the things you can with native apps right now. That's exactly what this is about. Microsoft is the one slowing the web development even more now, by not adopting the latest features on time.
- randomdata 14y ago
  Accurate browser numbers are always hard to come by, but for argument's sake, let's assume: IE: 40%, Mobile: 10%, Other modern desktop browsers: 50% (Numbers based on Wikipedia's browser market share page) Current thinking has us building a website that works for all of those browsers, and then building an optimized version that works better for the 10% of mobile users. I've visited many sites on my mobile devices that are complete rewrites, using browser-specific features, of the regular website, for 10% of the users. Yet, we completely refuse to use features found in 50% of the browsers because Microsoft hasn't implemented them yet. This is where the math falls apart. If resources are limited to two implementations, wouldn't it make more sense to provide a better experience for 50% of the users, and still provide the basic version for Microsoft/mobile users? If 10% of users are enough to warrant a completely different website version as has been demonstrated with the rise of mobile users, then why not build three variants? One mobile, one old web technology version, and then one using bleeding edge technologies? What is it about Microsoft's latency in feature implementations that you speak to that prevents the latter version from even being considered?
pooriaazimi 14y ago
To make money through a website you (typically) need to put disgusting ads on it (apart from actually making the site and service). To make money in the app store, you create the app (and service) and sell it. I like the latter a whole lot more than the idea of putting banners and ads on my website. I get your point, and agree with it to a certain extent; i just wanted to point out that mobile development (iOS, and to a lesser extent Android) and web apps are not necessarily very similar from a business perspective[1] and that sometimes it makes sense to target 1 million iOS users instead of 60 million web users. [1]: Of course, you can sell subscription on web too. It's just that far more people are willing to purchase a $5 Instapaper app on the app store (or upgrade their account for $1/month to search within their saved articles through in-app purchase, that literally requires two click (and entering your password), than there are people who would give you their credit card number to purchase your web service.
- randomdata 14y ago
  Some good points. However, I made a follow up post (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4233820 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4233820) that sticks to just the web browser domain, negating any gains that may come from alternative business models. Even when mobile web usage is relatively small, business are still generally putting in a lot of effort to build mobile-specific pages.