4 ms·

Show me one performant and nice react app. Even the creator can’t.

condwanaland 2y ago
How are you measuring 'nice'? How are you measuring 'performant'? My assumption would be that if you haven't seen anything, even from the creator, then you just have different expectations to the people who do get value from React
- xcrunner529 2y ago
  It’s interesting I’ve asked this question several times and no one can point me to one. Performant meaning when react is used it’s not at the bottom in speed and latency[1]. [1]: https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
davely 2y ago
Every single React app has to ability to be nice and performant. The issue (and this isn’t React’s fault) is that every single web app is so obsessed with measuring analytics and engagement metrics and loading multiple ad containers and and and… Whether Vite, or Svelte, or Vanilla JS, when you start stuffing a site with all these tracking pixels and other junk, they are all horrible. There is likely a bit of observer bias going on with your comment, as many popular sites these days run React and they happen to run like crap due to the reasons I listed above.
- mdhb 2y ago
  React is also incredibly behind the rest of the industry in terms of performance and has been for a long time. What you’re saying isn’t wrong but it’s a different problem on top of React.
  - terandle 2y ago
    Yes but in 6 months react will release a compiler to catch it up by a lot. Performance has diminishing returns and at some point, things just need to be fast enough (see vscode) and the industry will continue on as the switching cost is way too high.
    - xcrunner529 2y ago
      True. But if the sites performed well (big if) and feel responsive, look nice, don’t break middle click and other browser functions - well I don’t see the problem, then. I don’t think the “hate” is irrational.
      - terandle 2y ago
        Which is why I think react (and other SPA frameworks) are now pointing beginners to full stack frameworks like nextjs, remix etc where those best practices are baked in. It took the JS frameworks a bit to find their path there but I think they are there now.
        xcrunner529 2y ago
        What are your thoughts on things like HTMX though, which with a small payload allow lots of SPA-like features and part of the content language itself. The other hatred I have is the need for all of this crap on top of a crappy language.
        lakomen 2y ago
        It's a big step back
        terandle 2y ago
        HTMX has a ceiling on how interactive/complex you can make your site [1]. If you know you will never need to exceed those sure. However I like to use nextjs as it gives me the peace of mind I will always be able to pivot or implement whatever the customer wants. [1] https://htmx.org/essays/why-gumroad-didnt-choose-htmx/ https://htmx.org/essays/why-gumroad-didnt-choose-htmx/
- xcrunner529 2y ago
  You don’t think Amazon is tracking tons? And their site blows Walmart, target etc out of the water. Google? https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce
  - davely 2y ago
    I’m not sure how that refutes my point. Of course they are. That probably explains why the Amazon website just took 5 seconds to load on my phone while on a gigabit connection at home.
    - xcrunner529 2y ago
      The point is clear. Amazon is far more performant and does tracking so that’s not to blame.
      - burgerzzz 2y ago
        I don’t know how accurate this is. I just loaded up Walmart and Targets sites and they load very quickly and navigating between pages is snappy as well. What’s your metric for performance?
        xcrunner529 2y ago
        Are you in a fast and wired connection? The link I posted above has data: https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce
- onion2k 2y ago
  Whether Vite, or Svelte, or Vanilla JS, when you start stuffing a site with all these tracking pixels and other junk, they are all horrible. They're definitely horrible from a moral standpoint, but if you look at the flamechart of JS activity in your browser you can easily see that they sit idle 99% of the time and only send events to an API as low priority background work when the browser does things. They aren't what makes websites slow.
zeroonetwothree 2y ago
Pretty much every React app I’ve worked on (and I’ve been using it for 10 years) has been nice and performant.
- xcrunner529 2y ago
  I’m sure every dev thinks that including the ones at Facebook, Target, and Walmart but they’re not. Show the data.
magnio 2y ago
Drawing canvas: https://excalidraw.com/ https://excalidraw.com/ Drawing canvas: https://www.tldraw.com/ https://www.tldraw.com/ Code playground: https://replit.com/ https://replit.com/ Supabase dashboard: https://supabase.com/ https://supabase.com/ Vercel dashboard: https://vercel.com/ https://vercel.com/ Workout tracking: https://workout.lol/ https://workout.lol/ Chatbot: https://chatgpt.com https://chatgpt.com Note-taking: https://www.usememos.com/ https://www.usememos.com/ Tax filing: https://ustaxes.org/start https://ustaxes.org/start Python notebook: https://marimo.io/ https://marimo.io/ LoL info: https://www.op.gg/ https://www.op.gg/ Sports matches: https://www.sofascore.com/ https://www.sofascore.com/ Trading news: https://seekingalpha.com/ https://seekingalpha.com/ Website builder: https://mmm.page/ https://mmm.page/ Podcast maker: https://podcastle.ai/ https://podcastle.ai/
- xcrunner529 2y ago
  Dang you’re not wrong. I didn’t check all of them but in my phone those drawing ones are super responsive. If only most PWAs worked like that there’d be more goodwill for them. I personally feel most React apps and their abysmal performance (starting with facebook’s attempt) really hurt the PWA movement on mobile.
  - ksec 2y ago
    I dont think people are actually against PWA or React per se. In those examples above yes 80% of them should be using React. What most people have problems with are things like SeekingAlpha which doesn't need to be with React at all but is using it anyway. While I dont visit "SeekingAlpha" but most of the time these site will have one or two problems that makes it feel not a web page but a web apps.
robertwt7 2y ago
airbnb, retool, sentry, datadog, snowflake.. refine: https://github.com/refinedev/refine https://github.com/refinedev/refine appsmith: https://github.com/appsmithorg/appsmith https://github.com/appsmithorg/appsmith there are heaps what are you talking about!
- vanschelven 2y ago
  not according to https://pagespeed.web.dev https://pagespeed.web.dev though (I stopped testing after Sentry)
sensanaty 2y ago
I'm definitely a React hater personally, but Linear (https://linear.app https://linear.app) is built with React and is impressively fast and responsive.

How are you measuring 'nice'? How are you measuring 'performant'? My assumption would be that if you haven't seen anything, even from the creator, then you just have different expectations to the people who do get value from React

xcrunner529 2y ago
It’s interesting I’ve asked this question several times and no one can point me to one. Performant meaning when react is used it’s not at the bottom in speed and latency[1]. [1]: https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

davely 2y ago

Every single React app has to ability to be nice and performant. The issue (and this isn’t React’s fault) is that every single web app is so obsessed with measuring analytics and engagement metrics and loading multiple ad containers and and and… Whether Vite, or Svelte, or Vanilla JS, when you start stuffing a site with all these tracking pixels and other junk, they are all horrible. There is likely a bit of observer bias going on with your comment, as many popular sites these days run React and they happen to run like crap due to the reasons I listed above.

mdhb 2y ago
React is also incredibly behind the rest of the industry in terms of performance and has been for a long time. What you’re saying isn’t wrong but it’s a different problem on top of React.
- terandle 2y ago
  Yes but in 6 months react will release a compiler to catch it up by a lot. Performance has diminishing returns and at some point, things just need to be fast enough (see vscode) and the industry will continue on as the switching cost is way too high.
  - xcrunner529 2y ago
    True. But if the sites performed well (big if) and feel responsive, look nice, don’t break middle click and other browser functions - well I don’t see the problem, then. I don’t think the “hate” is irrational.
    - terandle 2y ago
      Which is why I think react (and other SPA frameworks) are now pointing beginners to full stack frameworks like nextjs, remix etc where those best practices are baked in. It took the JS frameworks a bit to find their path there but I think they are there now.
      - xcrunner529 2y ago
        What are your thoughts on things like HTMX though, which with a small payload allow lots of SPA-like features and part of the content language itself. The other hatred I have is the need for all of this crap on top of a crappy language.
        lakomen 2y ago
        It's a big step back
        terandle 2y ago
        HTMX has a ceiling on how interactive/complex you can make your site [1]. If you know you will never need to exceed those sure. However I like to use nextjs as it gives me the peace of mind I will always be able to pivot or implement whatever the customer wants. [1] https://htmx.org/essays/why-gumroad-didnt-choose-htmx/ https://htmx.org/essays/why-gumroad-didnt-choose-htmx/
xcrunner529 2y ago
You don’t think Amazon is tracking tons? And their site blows Walmart, target etc out of the water. Google? https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce
- davely 2y ago
  I’m not sure how that refutes my point. Of course they are. That probably explains why the Amazon website just took 5 seconds to load on my phone while on a gigabit connection at home.
  - xcrunner529 2y ago
    The point is clear. Amazon is far more performant and does tracking so that’s not to blame.
    - burgerzzz 2y ago
      I don’t know how accurate this is. I just loaded up Walmart and Targets sites and they load very quickly and navigating between pages is snappy as well. What’s your metric for performance?
      - xcrunner529 2y ago
        Are you in a fast and wired connection? The link I posted above has data: https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce https://infrequently.org/#e-commerce
onion2k 2y ago
Whether Vite, or Svelte, or Vanilla JS, when you start stuffing a site with all these tracking pixels and other junk, they are all horrible. They're definitely horrible from a moral standpoint, but if you look at the flamechart of JS activity in your browser you can easily see that they sit idle 99% of the time and only send events to an API as low priority background work when the browser does things. They aren't what makes websites slow.

zeroonetwothree 2y ago

Pretty much every React app I’ve worked on (and I’ve been using it for 10 years) has been nice and performant.

xcrunner529 2y ago
I’m sure every dev thinks that including the ones at Facebook, Target, and Walmart but they’re not. Show the data.

magnio 2y ago

Drawing canvas: https://excalidraw.com/ https://excalidraw.com/ Drawing canvas: https://www.tldraw.com/ https://www.tldraw.com/ Code playground: https://replit.com/ https://replit.com/ Supabase dashboard: https://supabase.com/ https://supabase.com/ Vercel dashboard: https://vercel.com/ https://vercel.com/ Workout tracking: https://workout.lol/ https://workout.lol/ Chatbot: https://chatgpt.com https://chatgpt.com Note-taking: https://www.usememos.com/ https://www.usememos.com/ Tax filing: https://ustaxes.org/start https://ustaxes.org/start Python notebook: https://marimo.io/ https://marimo.io/ LoL info: https://www.op.gg/ https://www.op.gg/ Sports matches: https://www.sofascore.com/ https://www.sofascore.com/ Trading news: https://seekingalpha.com/ https://seekingalpha.com/ Website builder: https://mmm.page/ https://mmm.page/ Podcast maker: https://podcastle.ai/ https://podcastle.ai/

xcrunner529 2y ago
Dang you’re not wrong. I didn’t check all of them but in my phone those drawing ones are super responsive. If only most PWAs worked like that there’d be more goodwill for them. I personally feel most React apps and their abysmal performance (starting with facebook’s attempt) really hurt the PWA movement on mobile.
- ksec 2y ago
  I dont think people are actually against PWA or React per se. In those examples above yes 80% of them should be using React. What most people have problems with are things like SeekingAlpha which doesn't need to be with React at all but is using it anyway. While I dont visit "SeekingAlpha" but most of the time these site will have one or two problems that makes it feel not a web page but a web apps.

robertwt7 2y ago

airbnb, retool, sentry, datadog, snowflake.. refine: https://github.com/refinedev/refine https://github.com/refinedev/refine appsmith: https://github.com/appsmithorg/appsmith https://github.com/appsmithorg/appsmith there are heaps what are you talking about!

vanschelven 2y ago
not according to https://pagespeed.web.dev https://pagespeed.web.dev though (I stopped testing after Sentry)

sensanaty 2y ago

I'm definitely a React hater personally, but Linear (https://linear.app https://linear.app) is built with React and is impressively fast and responsive.