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Housing doesn't induce demand in cities. Jobs induce demand in cities. And to a lesser degree, amenities and services. > A large city (>200k population) that

Housing doesn't induce demand in cities. Jobs induce demand in cities. And to a lesser degree, amenities and services. > A large city (>200k population) that lowered housing prices by increasing density. Tokyo, any city in China Overbuilding in Tokyo lowered prices so much the entire Japanese economy collapsed, and a similar thing seems to be happening in China now.

cyberax 2y ago
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- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Tokyo before 1995. > And what do you think concentrates jobs in ever-densifying cities? It's the areas with the least available housing that get the most jobs, so the answer is "anything but housing". Ignoring China is a total cop out, because it's pretty much the only location in the world that currently has a significant housing surplus.
  - AstralStorm 2y ago
    Besides Singapore with its targeted housing policy. There's not exactly surplus but sufficient numbers. Really though, housing exists but is not available. Mostly due to expense and being redirected to short term rentals.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      Singapore: https://tradingeconomics.com/singapore/housing-index https://tradingeconomics.com/singapore/housing-index - prices are growing. Like, can you do at least a 5 second google check?!?
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > Tokyo before 1995. Great, and then the history stopped at 1995? > It's the areas with the least available housing that get the most jobs, so the answer is "anything but housing". The answer is: force jobs out of dense hellscapes (SF, NYC). Via taxes and incentives. > Ignoring China is a total cop out, because it's pretty much the only location in the world that currently has a significant housing surplus. I don't have data for China. So I can't tell if it's true or not. It's also not a country with a full market economy and free movement of people.
smelendez 2y ago
It’s more complicated than that, though. There’s a middle ground where more affordable housing absolutely attracts residents and causes a housing shortage. It’s more obvious in neighborhoods. Think of areas in Brooklyn where luxury housing gets built. People see their friends moving there and rich people amenities moving in, and bid up the price of existing, cheaper housing. That can happen with cities too. Your friends move to City X because it’s cheap, you visit and love it, move there even though it’s not as cheap anymore. The influx of new residents creates new amenities including jobs, housing doesn’t keep up, now it’s more expensive.
- cyberax 2y ago
  > It’s more complicated than that, though. It's really not. Really. Some things are just black&white. > There’s a middle ground where more affordable housing absolutely attracts residents and causes a housing shortage. Nope. There isn't. You won't build "affordable" housing by increasing density. You can build subsidized housing projects, where somebody _else_ pays for them. But that's it. Want cheaper housing? Build suburbs and exurbs, and force companies to spread out of The Downtowns. There are no other options.

cyberax 2y ago

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bryanlarsen 2y ago
Tokyo before 1995. > And what do you think concentrates jobs in ever-densifying cities? It's the areas with the least available housing that get the most jobs, so the answer is "anything but housing". Ignoring China is a total cop out, because it's pretty much the only location in the world that currently has a significant housing surplus.
- AstralStorm 2y ago
  Besides Singapore with its targeted housing policy. There's not exactly surplus but sufficient numbers. Really though, housing exists but is not available. Mostly due to expense and being redirected to short term rentals.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    Singapore: https://tradingeconomics.com/singapore/housing-index https://tradingeconomics.com/singapore/housing-index - prices are growing. Like, can you do at least a 5 second google check?!?
- cyberax 2y ago
  > Tokyo before 1995. Great, and then the history stopped at 1995? > It's the areas with the least available housing that get the most jobs, so the answer is "anything but housing". The answer is: force jobs out of dense hellscapes (SF, NYC). Via taxes and incentives. > Ignoring China is a total cop out, because it's pretty much the only location in the world that currently has a significant housing surplus. I don't have data for China. So I can't tell if it's true or not. It's also not a country with a full market economy and free movement of people.

smelendez 2y ago

It’s more complicated than that, though. There’s a middle ground where more affordable housing absolutely attracts residents and causes a housing shortage. It’s more obvious in neighborhoods. Think of areas in Brooklyn where luxury housing gets built. People see their friends moving there and rich people amenities moving in, and bid up the price of existing, cheaper housing. That can happen with cities too. Your friends move to City X because it’s cheap, you visit and love it, move there even though it’s not as cheap anymore. The influx of new residents creates new amenities including jobs, housing doesn’t keep up, now it’s more expensive.

cyberax 2y ago
> It’s more complicated than that, though. It's really not. Really. Some things are just black&white. > There’s a middle ground where more affordable housing absolutely attracts residents and causes a housing shortage. Nope. There isn't. You won't build "affordable" housing by increasing density. You can build subsidized housing projects, where somebody _else_ pays for them. But that's it. Want cheaper housing? Build suburbs and exurbs, and force companies to spread out of The Downtowns. There are no other options.