6 ms·

An idea for Github to make more money

65 points by umrashrf 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ZenJosh 14y ago
I think you make a good point, but I think it'd make a lot more sense for Github to facilitate donations to projects rather than adding a bunch of crowdfunding stuff. Id much rather donate cash to a project in development, much in the same way I can donate my time, than 'fund' it.
- umrashrf 14y ago
  You're right. Unless the funds invested returns anything against it, this wouldn't be investment but donation. I am more interested in Github to find a way out of Kickstarter to create a whole new revenue stream for them.
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    I'm not sure I would consider the Kickstarter crowdfunding to be "investing". I think "investor" has a certain level of formality attached to it. Investors usually get some stake or something. Most of the Kickstarters I've seen give t-shirts, stickers, access to early betas, pre-orders, etc. Giving to a Kickstarter project seems barely more than a donation. I just think of it as an incentivised donation. If GitHub was to introduce some such feature, it would probably need to have similar incentives as well (bug fixed, feature added, etc) although straight donation (or tip jar or what every you want to call it) would be possible too.
- zoul 14y ago
  Just what I came here to post –- tipping jar would be nice indeed, on both sides of the fork.
justindocanto 14y ago
I had low expectations for this, but I actually like the idea. facilitating some sort of donation, fund, back, etc. income for the developers making the software could be good. chosing whether to give to the main dev, a specific dev or equally spread that donation amongst all devs contributing to a project would make it a lot more fair too. i would use this functionality with a doubt.
- umrashrf 14y ago
  Yeah. Most of the time when I am working on something and if that's a big thing to get turnaround on, I loss my level of energy that I had when I started it because there is no incentive or quick turnaround.
colinhowe 14y ago
A bounty on issues would also be interesting... sometimes you have an issue you can't personally fix and isn't critical enough to get a contributors interest. $100 might get their interest though :)
- umrashrf 14y ago
  Yeah. May be levels of bounties like $10, $50, $100, $500, $1000, ....
- dhx 14y ago
  Bug tracking software has played with the idea of bug bounties for many years now. However I challenge you to provide a link to a public bug tracker where these bug bounty features are successfully used. For further reading, there exists plenty of discussion and analysis surrounding bug bounties for security vulnerabilities. Bounty rewards are typically a token gesture that don't even begin to cover the real costs of the developer/researcher. And for open source projects -- many developers are writing code for fun, as a challenge or as an experiment. Are intrinsically motivated developers going to respond positively to extrinsic motivators?
aditya 14y ago
They used to have automatic Pledgie integration[1] -- guess it didn't work out too well... [1] https://github.com/blog/57-getting-paid-the-open-source-way/ https://github.com/blog/57-getting-paid-the-open-source-way/
- umrashrf 14y ago
  That was good but I think it wasn't tightly integrated.
- whit537 14y ago
  Good find.
lloeki 14y ago
The news about GitHub raising money and this article came right at the time when I was contemplating moving to BitBucket. While comparing the latter's plans with GitHub ones I couldn't help but wonder how Atlassian is turning any profit on BitBucket (the plans seem quite cheaper, and I already wonder how GitHub turns out to be profitable)
- krunaldo 14y ago
  BW is cheap, storage is cheap. They probably run filesystem that utilize dedup or/and do it in their applications storage logic.
samstarling 14y ago
The problem here is the massive assumption that if the developers of a project had more money, then that would directly relate to more time/effort being spent on the project. That's not always true.
salman89 14y ago
Github's core offering is a hosted git solution. I'm not sure how a crowd funding add on fits into that core offering. Like another user already said, more money doesn't necessarily mean a boost in development speed/quality. I think there is something in "Kickstarter for developers" (there are bounty based sites that work like this), but I don't believe it really fits with the product/value prop. I still think Github's biggest potential for revenue is from the enterprise-sized to medium-sized development shops, by way of creating software collaboration tools. Git can be hosted anywhere, but there are reasons why developers like Github beyond it being a repository.
- meric 14y ago
  You mean like Atlassian?
  - sequoia 14y ago
    The atlassian stack (in particular Fisheye) is a Github Enterprise competitor, yes.
kngl 14y ago
There is already a service to give money to some github user: https://www.gittip.com/ https://www.gittip.com/
- rushabh 14y ago
  That's interesting but most people don't know about it (and the sums are very small too). An integrated service would take things to a much different level much much more trust that the money actually goes to the developers.
  - whit537 14y ago
    Hey there! I'm the lead developer on Gittip. May I say a few words? First, I think GitHub could definitely make some money doing what OP suggests. Second, Gittip is starting with GitHub but I hope it will grow beyond GitHub. Third, sums are growing. Gittip is a month old. We moved $30 three weeks ago and moved $380 last week. We're set to move $480 tomorrow--more if you contribute! :-) Fourth, the pricing model is different. If GitHub were to do like Kickstarter they'd take a 10% cut. Gittip is priced to cost. Fifth, Gittip drinks its own Kool-Aid. The people developing Gittip (i.e., me) are looking to make their living through Gittip itself, not from a 10% cut. Sixth, Gittip is developed in the open ... on GitHub. Jump in! :D https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com
    - bmelton 14y ago
      I got here from the other thread posted here:http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4236756 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4236756 While I generally love the idea and think well of it, your fifth point is actually a bit of concern. I'd rather you took a small percentage and were able to maintain things. What if you're moving hundreds of thousands of dollars a week, but are still only getting $200 and change for yourself? Will the site close? As an 'opted-in' developer, there goes my revenue stream. I'm not saying it isn't noble, but while I can appreciate you relying on it for your revenue stream, and would love to get to a point where I could rely on it for mine, there's a confidence factor in the service that doesn't necessarily interact with either of those. It might not mean anything to anybody else, but I'd have a hard time relying on that until I knew it wasn't going to implode, and that probably means periodically checking your number. Another small concern I have with it are actually seeing the totals. If you get to $600 on your page, that's $2400(ish) a month. I worry that figure might discourage people -- "Oh, he's already 'rolling in it', I'll tip somebody else that needs it more." I feel like it almost looks like charity at that point. It'll be interesting to see how things actually shake out though.
rushabh 14y ago
I think this is brilliant for Open Source projects, and running an Open Source project I instinctively felt this is a great idea. There might be issues if the project has contributions from a large number of unconnected developers (on how to split the amount), or alternatively a project getting a decent amount of funding may put off certain developers, who then might not want to contribute for "free". On the other hand, it could become a marketplace for contractors. That would be cool. Each project could make a small proposal and invite bids from freelancers, who could all bid on github. Yeah, lots of interesting possibilities.
zoobert 14y ago
I am the developer of Gmvault (http://www.gmvault.org http://www.gmvault.org) an open source tool having its development hosted on github (https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault). I really like the idea of crowd funding and would like my tool to be founded like that if possible as I would like it to be open source and available to anybody while providing enough money to run the development server. I even more like to idea of having bounties on bugs as this would help me prioritizing features and bug fixes while funding the development. However since the release of the tool in may I had around 20000 downloads but less the 20 persons supported the development by donating something. I still hope that having such a facility directly embedded in Github would allow people to be a bit more philanthropic and rewarding for the developers as often developers would probably want to continue full time the adventure of developing a product or a library.
- alttab 14y ago
  What if I gave you $150,000? Would you make the product to my specifications? Does this illustrate why this could be a channel to disrupt the spirit of open source software? Imagine Github does implement this. Now you have a bunch of coders who want to work on "open source" projects for money, hoping to get backers as if they did a Kickstarter project. Or maybe it could start an OSS Github "gold rush." Now that we have a bunch of money-hungry developers, it'd be pretty easy to de-rail or commandeer projects simply by donating a large portion of money. Now imagine a non OSS competitor starts contributing. Multiple things can happen: 1) Any innovation or development of features could be easily copied and incorporated into competitive projects for sale. 2) A developer gets "hooked" on that donation money and starts favoring the large donors' requests over others. 3) These requests could sabotage the quality or the focus of the project. 4) The donor could pull funding at this point and collapse development and support of the project. Full blown conspiracies aside, the whole point of OSS was to open up development for everyone to grow and learn, and to remove software development from the corruptible influence of money. I think others on this thread had a great idea, make it a "tip", and make it anonymous. We would still have to limit "tips" because anyone can make a huge tip and then e-mail a "ransom" letter to the developers to do stuff if they want to continue getting large tips. The previous ordered list applies here. Again, I'm going to an extreme and likely this sort of abuse wouldn't be rampant in a system like that. But involving money at all directly into the process sounds like it could do more harm than good. If you want to take donations, you can do a Kickstarter to get up and running and then take some sort of "beer" or micropayment service on your website. Github integrating this into their offering seems irresponsible to the OSS community at large.
benjaminwootton 14y ago
Something slightly different.... It would be nice if Github gave you the option of adding $1 - N$ onto your membership fee, and then distributed that between the open source projects or authors that you follow.
- sequoia 14y ago
  I think Kachingle was trying to do this for online media generally.
  - whit537 14y ago
    Yeah, and they got burned because they were staunchly opt-out. That is, they would collect money on your behalf without your permission.
- honzacz 14y ago
  I thought the same...I think that some people want to support good open source projects, but it is not really convenient to go through several project pages and donate (which is not always possible). This would facilitate such contribution.
pixie_ 14y ago
The developer audience is small and targeted. Kickstarter woos the masses. I doubt GitHub would make much money off this idea. The bigger problem is who gets the money from backers. Projects can have multiple contributors, projects can also be forked. There is no way this system could fairly pay the right contributors without massive complexity and pissing people off.
- secoif 14y ago
  I don't see the problem. The money goes to the owner of the repo to distribute as they see fit. If you contribute code to an OS project, and then someone makes money from that OS project, do you feel pissed off that you didn't get a cut of that money? If you trust people to build you free stuff, why do you suddenly not trust them to get paid for it? edit: clarified
  - whit537 14y ago
    May I plug https://www.gittip.com/ https://www.gittip.com/ up here, too? Gittip lets you pay money to developers on GitHub. It's only a month old. Three weeks ago we moved $30, and last week we moved $380. https://www.gittip.com/about/stats.html https://www.gittip.com/about/stats.html Right now I'm personally grossing $65 a week on Gittip, for example. https://www.gittip.com/whit537/ https://www.gittip.com/whit537/ It's all developed as openly and transparently as possible. It's not a traditional for-profit model like GitHub.
  - pixie_ 14y ago
    'the owner of the repo to distribute as they see fit.' - that type of system will piss people off no matter how much you rationalize it. 'If you contribute code to an OS project, and then someone makes money from that OS project, do you feel pissed off that you didn't get a cut of that money?' - like a lot of money? and something you put a lot of code into? then yea. have you had an open source project that others have taken and reaped hundreds of thousands of dollars off of? I have, it sucks. 'If you trust people to build you free stuff, why do you suddenly not trust them to get paid for it?' - because ideal human behavior is different from real human behavior.
rb2k_ 14y ago
They could just partner with [0]flattr, that way I could also subscribe to my favorite libraries. [0] http://flattr.com http://flattr.com
- whit537 14y ago
  Flattr supports flattring GitHub profiles, I believe via a browser extension. http://blog.flattr.net/2012/02/winter-update-github-tweets-extensions/ http://blog.flattr.net/2012/02/winter-update-github-tweets-e...
  - rb2k_ 14y ago
    I have it in the back of my head that there is a way for the site to get a small percentage of the revenue if they 'properly' integrate it. At least I think Instacast, the iOS podcasting client, used that feature.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
jack-r-abbit 14y ago
I could see this as a possibility but honestly that sounds like a lot of work for GitHub when there is already a means to crowdfund your project. I don't see what is stopping people from just starting their own Kickstarter project to support the project they are storing on GitHub.
lincolnwebs 14y ago
This seems predicated on GitHub needing additional revenue. I don't think their announcement signalled that at all. GitHub accepted an investment partner. My assumption is that they got excellent terms since they are very cashflow-positive, they hope to IPO one day, and they require investment-savvy advisors.

65 points by umrashrf 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

I think you make a good point, but I think it'd make a lot more sense for Github to facilitate donations to projects rather than adding a bunch of crowdfunding stuff. Id much rather donate cash to a project in development, much in the same way I can donate my time, than 'fund' it.

umrashrf 14y ago
You're right. Unless the funds invested returns anything against it, this wouldn't be investment but donation. I am more interested in Github to find a way out of Kickstarter to create a whole new revenue stream for them.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  I'm not sure I would consider the Kickstarter crowdfunding to be "investing". I think "investor" has a certain level of formality attached to it. Investors usually get some stake or something. Most of the Kickstarters I've seen give t-shirts, stickers, access to early betas, pre-orders, etc. Giving to a Kickstarter project seems barely more than a donation. I just think of it as an incentivised donation. If GitHub was to introduce some such feature, it would probably need to have similar incentives as well (bug fixed, feature added, etc) although straight donation (or tip jar or what every you want to call it) would be possible too.
zoul 14y ago
Just what I came here to post –- tipping jar would be nice indeed, on both sides of the fork.

justindocanto 14y ago

I had low expectations for this, but I actually like the idea. facilitating some sort of donation, fund, back, etc. income for the developers making the software could be good. chosing whether to give to the main dev, a specific dev or equally spread that donation amongst all devs contributing to a project would make it a lot more fair too. i would use this functionality with a doubt.

umrashrf 14y ago
Yeah. Most of the time when I am working on something and if that's a big thing to get turnaround on, I loss my level of energy that I had when I started it because there is no incentive or quick turnaround.

colinhowe 14y ago

A bounty on issues would also be interesting... sometimes you have an issue you can't personally fix and isn't critical enough to get a contributors interest. $100 might get their interest though :)

umrashrf 14y ago
Yeah. May be levels of bounties like $10, $50, $100, $500, $1000, ....
dhx 14y ago
Bug tracking software has played with the idea of bug bounties for many years now. However I challenge you to provide a link to a public bug tracker where these bug bounty features are successfully used. For further reading, there exists plenty of discussion and analysis surrounding bug bounties for security vulnerabilities. Bounty rewards are typically a token gesture that don't even begin to cover the real costs of the developer/researcher. And for open source projects -- many developers are writing code for fun, as a challenge or as an experiment. Are intrinsically motivated developers going to respond positively to extrinsic motivators?

aditya 14y ago

They used to have automatic Pledgie integration[1] -- guess it didn't work out too well... [1] https://github.com/blog/57-getting-paid-the-open-source-way/ https://github.com/blog/57-getting-paid-the-open-source-way/

umrashrf 14y ago
That was good but I think it wasn't tightly integrated.
whit537 14y ago
Good find.

lloeki 14y ago

The news about GitHub raising money and this article came right at the time when I was contemplating moving to BitBucket. While comparing the latter's plans with GitHub ones I couldn't help but wonder how Atlassian is turning any profit on BitBucket (the plans seem quite cheaper, and I already wonder how GitHub turns out to be profitable)

krunaldo 14y ago
BW is cheap, storage is cheap. They probably run filesystem that utilize dedup or/and do it in their applications storage logic.

samstarling 14y ago

The problem here is the massive assumption that if the developers of a project had more money, then that would directly relate to more time/effort being spent on the project. That's not always true.

salman89 14y ago

Github's core offering is a hosted git solution. I'm not sure how a crowd funding add on fits into that core offering. Like another user already said, more money doesn't necessarily mean a boost in development speed/quality. I think there is something in "Kickstarter for developers" (there are bounty based sites that work like this), but I don't believe it really fits with the product/value prop. I still think Github's biggest potential for revenue is from the enterprise-sized to medium-sized development shops, by way of creating software collaboration tools. Git can be hosted anywhere, but there are reasons why developers like Github beyond it being a repository.

meric 14y ago
You mean like Atlassian?
- sequoia 14y ago
  The atlassian stack (in particular Fisheye) is a Github Enterprise competitor, yes.

kngl 14y ago

There is already a service to give money to some github user: https://www.gittip.com/ https://www.gittip.com/

rushabh 14y ago
That's interesting but most people don't know about it (and the sums are very small too). An integrated service would take things to a much different level much much more trust that the money actually goes to the developers.
- whit537 14y ago
  Hey there! I'm the lead developer on Gittip. May I say a few words? First, I think GitHub could definitely make some money doing what OP suggests. Second, Gittip is starting with GitHub but I hope it will grow beyond GitHub. Third, sums are growing. Gittip is a month old. We moved $30 three weeks ago and moved $380 last week. We're set to move $480 tomorrow--more if you contribute! :-) Fourth, the pricing model is different. If GitHub were to do like Kickstarter they'd take a 10% cut. Gittip is priced to cost. Fifth, Gittip drinks its own Kool-Aid. The people developing Gittip (i.e., me) are looking to make their living through Gittip itself, not from a 10% cut. Sixth, Gittip is developed in the open ... on GitHub. Jump in! :D https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com
  - bmelton 14y ago
    I got here from the other thread posted here:http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4236756 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4236756 While I generally love the idea and think well of it, your fifth point is actually a bit of concern. I'd rather you took a small percentage and were able to maintain things. What if you're moving hundreds of thousands of dollars a week, but are still only getting $200 and change for yourself? Will the site close? As an 'opted-in' developer, there goes my revenue stream. I'm not saying it isn't noble, but while I can appreciate you relying on it for your revenue stream, and would love to get to a point where I could rely on it for mine, there's a confidence factor in the service that doesn't necessarily interact with either of those. It might not mean anything to anybody else, but I'd have a hard time relying on that until I knew it wasn't going to implode, and that probably means periodically checking your number. Another small concern I have with it are actually seeing the totals. If you get to $600 on your page, that's $2400(ish) a month. I worry that figure might discourage people -- "Oh, he's already 'rolling in it', I'll tip somebody else that needs it more." I feel like it almost looks like charity at that point. It'll be interesting to see how things actually shake out though.

rushabh 14y ago

I think this is brilliant for Open Source projects, and running an Open Source project I instinctively felt this is a great idea. There might be issues if the project has contributions from a large number of unconnected developers (on how to split the amount), or alternatively a project getting a decent amount of funding may put off certain developers, who then might not want to contribute for "free". On the other hand, it could become a marketplace for contractors. That would be cool. Each project could make a small proposal and invite bids from freelancers, who could all bid on github. Yeah, lots of interesting possibilities.

zoobert 14y ago

I am the developer of Gmvault (http://www.gmvault.org http://www.gmvault.org) an open source tool having its development hosted on github (https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault https://github.com/gaubert/gmvault). I really like the idea of crowd funding and would like my tool to be founded like that if possible as I would like it to be open source and available to anybody while providing enough money to run the development server. I even more like to idea of having bounties on bugs as this would help me prioritizing features and bug fixes while funding the development. However since the release of the tool in may I had around 20000 downloads but less the 20 persons supported the development by donating something. I still hope that having such a facility directly embedded in Github would allow people to be a bit more philanthropic and rewarding for the developers as often developers would probably want to continue full time the adventure of developing a product or a library.

alttab 14y ago
What if I gave you $150,000? Would you make the product to my specifications? Does this illustrate why this could be a channel to disrupt the spirit of open source software? Imagine Github does implement this. Now you have a bunch of coders who want to work on "open source" projects for money, hoping to get backers as if they did a Kickstarter project. Or maybe it could start an OSS Github "gold rush." Now that we have a bunch of money-hungry developers, it'd be pretty easy to de-rail or commandeer projects simply by donating a large portion of money. Now imagine a non OSS competitor starts contributing. Multiple things can happen: 1) Any innovation or development of features could be easily copied and incorporated into competitive projects for sale. 2) A developer gets "hooked" on that donation money and starts favoring the large donors' requests over others. 3) These requests could sabotage the quality or the focus of the project. 4) The donor could pull funding at this point and collapse development and support of the project. Full blown conspiracies aside, the whole point of OSS was to open up development for everyone to grow and learn, and to remove software development from the corruptible influence of money. I think others on this thread had a great idea, make it a "tip", and make it anonymous. We would still have to limit "tips" because anyone can make a huge tip and then e-mail a "ransom" letter to the developers to do stuff if they want to continue getting large tips. The previous ordered list applies here. Again, I'm going to an extreme and likely this sort of abuse wouldn't be rampant in a system like that. But involving money at all directly into the process sounds like it could do more harm than good. If you want to take donations, you can do a Kickstarter to get up and running and then take some sort of "beer" or micropayment service on your website. Github integrating this into their offering seems irresponsible to the OSS community at large.

benjaminwootton 14y ago

Something slightly different.... It would be nice if Github gave you the option of adding $1 - N$ onto your membership fee, and then distributed that between the open source projects or authors that you follow.

sequoia 14y ago
I think Kachingle was trying to do this for online media generally.
- whit537 14y ago
  Yeah, and they got burned because they were staunchly opt-out. That is, they would collect money on your behalf without your permission.
honzacz 14y ago
I thought the same...I think that some people want to support good open source projects, but it is not really convenient to go through several project pages and donate (which is not always possible). This would facilitate such contribution.

pixie_ 14y ago

The developer audience is small and targeted. Kickstarter woos the masses. I doubt GitHub would make much money off this idea. The bigger problem is who gets the money from backers. Projects can have multiple contributors, projects can also be forked. There is no way this system could fairly pay the right contributors without massive complexity and pissing people off.

secoif 14y ago
I don't see the problem. The money goes to the owner of the repo to distribute as they see fit. If you contribute code to an OS project, and then someone makes money from that OS project, do you feel pissed off that you didn't get a cut of that money? If you trust people to build you free stuff, why do you suddenly not trust them to get paid for it? edit: clarified
- whit537 14y ago
  May I plug https://www.gittip.com/ https://www.gittip.com/ up here, too? Gittip lets you pay money to developers on GitHub. It's only a month old. Three weeks ago we moved $30, and last week we moved $380. https://www.gittip.com/about/stats.html https://www.gittip.com/about/stats.html Right now I'm personally grossing $65 a week on Gittip, for example. https://www.gittip.com/whit537/ https://www.gittip.com/whit537/ It's all developed as openly and transparently as possible. It's not a traditional for-profit model like GitHub.
- pixie_ 14y ago
  'the owner of the repo to distribute as they see fit.' - that type of system will piss people off no matter how much you rationalize it. 'If you contribute code to an OS project, and then someone makes money from that OS project, do you feel pissed off that you didn't get a cut of that money?' - like a lot of money? and something you put a lot of code into? then yea. have you had an open source project that others have taken and reaped hundreds of thousands of dollars off of? I have, it sucks. 'If you trust people to build you free stuff, why do you suddenly not trust them to get paid for it?' - because ideal human behavior is different from real human behavior.

rb2k_ 14y ago

They could just partner with [0]flattr, that way I could also subscribe to my favorite libraries. [0] http://flattr.com http://flattr.com

whit537 14y ago
Flattr supports flattring GitHub profiles, I believe via a browser extension. http://blog.flattr.net/2012/02/winter-update-github-tweets-extensions/ http://blog.flattr.net/2012/02/winter-update-github-tweets-e...
- rb2k_ 14y ago
  I have it in the back of my head that there is a way for the site to get a small percentage of the revenue if they 'properly' integrate it. At least I think Instacast, the iOS podcasting client, used that feature.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

jack-r-abbit 14y ago

I could see this as a possibility but honestly that sounds like a lot of work for GitHub when there is already a means to crowdfund your project. I don't see what is stopping people from just starting their own Kickstarter project to support the project they are storing on GitHub.

lincolnwebs 14y ago

This seems predicated on GitHub needing additional revenue. I don't think their announcement signalled that at all. GitHub accepted an investment partner. My assumption is that they got excellent terms since they are very cashflow-positive, they hope to IPO one day, and they require investment-savvy advisors.