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> Imagine you decided to start developing websites today, how do you even start? You learn vanilla HTML/CSS/JS (I think Mozilla has good courses on those). Aft

by meme3 2y ago

> Imagine you decided to start developing websites today, how do you even start? You learn vanilla HTML/CSS/JS (I think Mozilla has good courses on those). After making a few websites that way, you learn Svelte and you live happily ever after. Avoid React, NextJS at all cost especially since many of these new frameworks actively try to screw over new developers with PaaS.

can16358p 2y ago
I get NextJS but how does React itself try to screw devs with PaaS?
- mhnthrow 2y ago
  The Getting Started docs recommend against using vanilla React and nudge you towards NextJS and similar frameworks because you're gonna end up needing that stuff eventually https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project So new projects have to actively not follow the recommended approach in the docs if they want to use vanilla React.
billti 2y ago
It's funny to think back now that JSX had such a strong negative reaction on launch. That's the one thing from React I love - having a declarative and strongly typed markup for HTML in my JS/TS code. I think React peaked with hooks around 2019. I write most of my front-end with the smallest 'React-like' library possible (Preact) using only functional components, and with as little 'magic' from useEffect etc. as possible. I like to stay close to 'raw' HTML/CSS/JS when possible, but the web platform APIs are just a little to clunky and verbose for me without the JSX abstraction.
- breadwinner 2y ago
  You can use JSX syntax without using React. You can stay close to raw HTML/CSS/JS too. See here: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder And here's a complete app example: https://github.com/wisercoder/eureka/tree/master/webapp/ClientApp https://github.com/wisercoder/eureka/tree/master/webapp/Clie...
exceptione 2y ago
I learn Svelte has a template language.
- norman784 2y ago
  It is not very different from mustache, or other older template engines and it's really needed because there is no conditional html rendering, loops etc in the HTML spec itself, I like that more than how Vue does. But otherwise, Svelte has a very low surface, everything else is just standard vanilla JS/Html, also one thing that Svelte has over other frameworks is that vanilla JS libraries just work, no need for a wrapper any.
  - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
    Some devs point at Svelte and say, “not many libraries, it can’t be very good!” What they don’t realize is it doesn’t need a cottage industry of tiny adapter libraries, JS stuff works fine.

by meme3 2y ago

can16358p 2y ago

I get NextJS but how does React itself try to screw devs with PaaS?

mhnthrow 2y ago
The Getting Started docs recommend against using vanilla React and nudge you towards NextJS and similar frameworks because you're gonna end up needing that stuff eventually https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project So new projects have to actively not follow the recommended approach in the docs if they want to use vanilla React.

billti 2y ago

It's funny to think back now that JSX had such a strong negative reaction on launch. That's the one thing from React I love - having a declarative and strongly typed markup for HTML in my JS/TS code. I think React peaked with hooks around 2019. I write most of my front-end with the smallest 'React-like' library possible (Preact) using only functional components, and with as little 'magic' from useEffect etc. as possible. I like to stay close to 'raw' HTML/CSS/JS when possible, but the web platform APIs are just a little to clunky and verbose for me without the JSX abstraction.

breadwinner 2y ago
You can use JSX syntax without using React. You can stay close to raw HTML/CSS/JS too. See here: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder And here's a complete app example: https://github.com/wisercoder/eureka/tree/master/webapp/ClientApp https://github.com/wisercoder/eureka/tree/master/webapp/Clie...

exceptione 2y ago

I learn Svelte has a template language.

norman784 2y ago
It is not very different from mustache, or other older template engines and it's really needed because there is no conditional html rendering, loops etc in the HTML spec itself, I like that more than how Vue does. But otherwise, Svelte has a very low surface, everything else is just standard vanilla JS/Html, also one thing that Svelte has over other frameworks is that vanilla JS libraries just work, no need for a wrapper any.
- mattgreenrocks 2y ago
  Some devs point at Svelte and say, “not many libraries, it can’t be very good!” What they don’t realize is it doesn’t need a cottage industry of tiny adapter libraries, JS stuff works fine.