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Theoretically yes. Practically almost all people got highly manipulated into having no hobby's or interests in their free time. They will find no use for a 4 d

Theoretically yes. Practically almost all people got highly manipulated into having no hobby's or interests in their free time. They will find no use for a 4 day week not will they see any advantages.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of options." The data on 4 Day Week trials has been positive in almost all cases [1], across many countries, same with remote work. We should try it if we care, I just don't think we care at a system level. Like rapidly declining fertility rates, there is enough will to complain, no will to change anything (imho, based on observations and the data). Maybe things need to get worse before they get better, I think we're just arguing over how bad the situation will need to get before change is made (structural demographics, socioeconomics, etc). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992783 (citations)
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Additional citation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42342203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42342203 ("HN: Tokyo government gives workers 4-day workweek to boost fertility, family time") https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/asia/tokyo-government-4-day-workweek-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/asia/tokyo-government-4-day-w... ("CNN: Tokyo government gives workers 4-day workweek to boost fertility, family time")
- Salmonfisher11 2y ago
  The bitter fact that we all have to swallow: higher management isn't interested in scientific facts.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - vundercind 2y ago
    It’s eye-opening to watch management ignore incredibly obvious methodological errors that clearly render the entire PowerPoint they’re looking at so suspect that it’s worthless. And it happens just about constantly. They’re either dumber than a slightly-bright 8th grade science student, or simply don’t care about the substance of trying to make decisions based on good data, but just the appearance, the theater, of doing so. Either way, outcome’s the same. Whatever you do, don’t point it out. They will not listen, because they don’t care.
bluefirebrand 2y ago
I think many people simply cannot afford to have hobbies or interests An astonishing number of people live paycheck to paycheck and basically any hobby costs at least some money
- dgfitz 2y ago
  If you had to guess, how much of that time is used on social media apps? Even playing videogames is a better hobby than doom-scrolling, or going for a walk/run, that's free. Maybe reading a book? I have friends who plow through 2-3 books a week, all from the local library. Cooking? I don't think people are as poor as you indicate. Everyone just takes their gramme of soma whenever they can.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    Yes, there are examples of things people can do for free But what they want to do may be different For instance it's very difficult to do any kind of creative craft if you don't have a budget. Woodworking, metalworking, or anything like that Even videogames is kind of expensive, you need a console or computer and then games can be pricey as well And yes, people may genuinely prefer to watch videos about working on cars rather than reading a book, when they would really rather be working on their own car but can't afford to
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      Fwiw, my local library rents newly-released video games, and you can get a Nintendo Switch cheaply. I know a LOT of poor people who fix their own cars, so I don't buy that argument much at all. I asked about TikTok and doom-scrolling, not watching youtube to educate yourself. People spend HOURS on that mess every day. And costs them a phone every 2-ish years and a service plan, so that isn't even remotely free.
      - bluefirebrand 2y ago
        > Costs them a phone every 2-ish years and a service plan, so that isn't even remotely free This doesn't seem relevant, honestly. People more or less need a phone to function in society nowadays, it's not really optional and it becomes more and more required all the time. So owning a phone and having a plan for it is more or less a sunk cost for almost everyone already I suspect you will quibble about this, phones aren't actually required, people could live without them.. but more and more you cannot participate in society without one. More and more you need mobile 2FA to interact with your banking, government services etc. Hell some restaurants you can't even see the menu without a phone to view QR codes on. Owning a phone is "optional" but the cost of not having one is high enough that it is basically ridiculous to suggest people should save money by not having one So if we take that a phone and plan is already a baseline, it's not really an extra expense for people to scroll feeds Meanwhile a hobby that requires access to specialized tools is an extra expense, and sometimes a big one Most poor people I've ever known (including myself, years ago) fix their own cars out of necessity because it's cheaper than going to a mechanic, not as a hobby
vundercind 2y ago
It’d be nice to have at least one actual day off every week instead of a day of catching up on all the must-do personal and family work that you had to defer during the work week and then another day that’s half more of that and half fretting that the work week is about to start again and you haven’t gotten any relaxation in.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of options." The data on 4 Day Week trials has been positive in almost all cases [1], across many countries, same with remote work. We should try it if we care, I just don't think we care at a system level. Like rapidly declining fertility rates, there is enough will to complain, no will to change anything (imho, based on observations and the data). Maybe things need to get worse before they get better, I think we're just arguing over how bad the situation will need to get before change is made (structural demographics, socioeconomics, etc). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992783 (citations)

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Additional citation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42342203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42342203 ("HN: Tokyo government gives workers 4-day workweek to boost fertility, family time") https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/asia/tokyo-government-4-day-workweek-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/asia/tokyo-government-4-day-w... ("CNN: Tokyo government gives workers 4-day workweek to boost fertility, family time")
Salmonfisher11 2y ago
The bitter fact that we all have to swallow: higher management isn't interested in scientific facts.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- vundercind 2y ago
  It’s eye-opening to watch management ignore incredibly obvious methodological errors that clearly render the entire PowerPoint they’re looking at so suspect that it’s worthless. And it happens just about constantly. They’re either dumber than a slightly-bright 8th grade science student, or simply don’t care about the substance of trying to make decisions based on good data, but just the appearance, the theater, of doing so. Either way, outcome’s the same. Whatever you do, don’t point it out. They will not listen, because they don’t care.

bluefirebrand 2y ago

I think many people simply cannot afford to have hobbies or interests An astonishing number of people live paycheck to paycheck and basically any hobby costs at least some money

dgfitz 2y ago
If you had to guess, how much of that time is used on social media apps? Even playing videogames is a better hobby than doom-scrolling, or going for a walk/run, that's free. Maybe reading a book? I have friends who plow through 2-3 books a week, all from the local library. Cooking? I don't think people are as poor as you indicate. Everyone just takes their gramme of soma whenever they can.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  Yes, there are examples of things people can do for free But what they want to do may be different For instance it's very difficult to do any kind of creative craft if you don't have a budget. Woodworking, metalworking, or anything like that Even videogames is kind of expensive, you need a console or computer and then games can be pricey as well And yes, people may genuinely prefer to watch videos about working on cars rather than reading a book, when they would really rather be working on their own car but can't afford to
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    Fwiw, my local library rents newly-released video games, and you can get a Nintendo Switch cheaply. I know a LOT of poor people who fix their own cars, so I don't buy that argument much at all. I asked about TikTok and doom-scrolling, not watching youtube to educate yourself. People spend HOURS on that mess every day. And costs them a phone every 2-ish years and a service plan, so that isn't even remotely free.
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago
      > Costs them a phone every 2-ish years and a service plan, so that isn't even remotely free This doesn't seem relevant, honestly. People more or less need a phone to function in society nowadays, it's not really optional and it becomes more and more required all the time. So owning a phone and having a plan for it is more or less a sunk cost for almost everyone already I suspect you will quibble about this, phones aren't actually required, people could live without them.. but more and more you cannot participate in society without one. More and more you need mobile 2FA to interact with your banking, government services etc. Hell some restaurants you can't even see the menu without a phone to view QR codes on. Owning a phone is "optional" but the cost of not having one is high enough that it is basically ridiculous to suggest people should save money by not having one So if we take that a phone and plan is already a baseline, it's not really an extra expense for people to scroll feeds Meanwhile a hobby that requires access to specialized tools is an extra expense, and sometimes a big one Most poor people I've ever known (including myself, years ago) fix their own cars out of necessity because it's cheaper than going to a mechanic, not as a hobby

vundercind 2y ago

It’d be nice to have at least one actual day off every week instead of a day of catching up on all the must-do personal and family work that you had to defer during the work week and then another day that’s half more of that and half fretting that the work week is about to start again and you haven’t gotten any relaxation in.