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People who had Jesus' and Allah's morality went on to murder, pillage, and rape hundreds of thousands, all in the name of Jesus and Allah. It's just as fallible

by piva00 2y ago

People who had Jesus' and Allah's morality went on to murder, pillage, and rape hundreds of thousands, all in the name of Jesus and Allah. It's just as fallible as any other moral code because in the end any kind of morals depend on humans. Secular morality just removes Sky Daddy from the equation, you don't need Christ, Allah, Buddha, nor any other spiritual being to be moral, you can be a good human without any need of fearing a god. Even better because if you're a good human you know you created that, it wasn't required by Sky Daddy. I'm pretty ok with this murderous morality ceasing to exist, thank you very much.

ConspiracyFact 2y ago
Quibble: let's not pretend that Christianity is nearly as bad as Islam, either in theory or in practice.
rayiner 2y ago
> you can be a good human without any need of fearing a god But does secular morality lead to conclusions that people—who mostly are immersed in religious morality even if they don’t believe in the supernatural aspects—perceive as “good?” In this example, it seems to me that Christian morality leads to one result, and secular morality leads to a different result. It seems like there’s some sub-rules that don’t exist in secular morality, perhaps because they’re difficult to justify without resort to fear of sky daddy.
- piva00 2y ago
  > In this example, it seems to me that Christian morality leads to one result, and secular morality leads to a different result. Can you provide examples of what different outcomes they lead to? Christian morality has been used to justify the Crusades, for example, how is that not as corrupt as secular morality? Secular morality has very similar tenets to Christian morality, not harming others is as secular as is Christian, don't cause to others what you don't want to be inflicted upon you is very secular without any need to resort to Jesus to be as valid. Perhaps without you defining what are specific examples of failures of secular morality this conversation won't lead anywhere, I don't know what you mean by it and hence know even less what you believe are the failures of secular morality. > It seems like there’s some sub-rules that don’t exist in secular morality, perhaps because they’re difficult to justify without resort to fear of sky daddy. Like what, exactly?

by piva00 2y ago

ConspiracyFact 2y ago

Quibble: let's not pretend that Christianity is nearly as bad as Islam, either in theory or in practice.

rayiner 2y ago

> you can be a good human without any need of fearing a god But does secular morality lead to conclusions that people—who mostly are immersed in religious morality even if they don’t believe in the supernatural aspects—perceive as “good?” In this example, it seems to me that Christian morality leads to one result, and secular morality leads to a different result. It seems like there’s some sub-rules that don’t exist in secular morality, perhaps because they’re difficult to justify without resort to fear of sky daddy.

piva00 2y ago
> In this example, it seems to me that Christian morality leads to one result, and secular morality leads to a different result. Can you provide examples of what different outcomes they lead to? Christian morality has been used to justify the Crusades, for example, how is that not as corrupt as secular morality? Secular morality has very similar tenets to Christian morality, not harming others is as secular as is Christian, don't cause to others what you don't want to be inflicted upon you is very secular without any need to resort to Jesus to be as valid. Perhaps without you defining what are specific examples of failures of secular morality this conversation won't lead anywhere, I don't know what you mean by it and hence know even less what you believe are the failures of secular morality. > It seems like there’s some sub-rules that don’t exist in secular morality, perhaps because they’re difficult to justify without resort to fear of sky daddy. Like what, exactly?