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Human nature is to have a moral compass (conscience), with a mind to contemplate whether our planned behavior is positive or negative for the happiness of those

Human nature is to have a moral compass (conscience), with a mind to contemplate whether our planned behavior is positive or negative for the happiness of those around us, and a free will to then choose which paths to take. What you describe is all present in the animals, to more or less advanced degree, where chimps and crows can use tools and even pass that knowledge on to others. Yes, our bodies follow the mammalian template, and with it comes our baseline tendencies to form packs to fight against other packs and fight for dominance within the pack, all in order to enjoy more physical pleasure. We inherit that, but we are capable of rising above those animalistic urges to become a humanitarian, who considers the happiness of others, and even the whole, in their decisions. Further, with our advanced being and our free will, we are able to self-evolve our ideals, attitudes, and behaviors, in EITHER moral direction: either towards a more selfish, brutal, and callous competitive state, or towards a more selfless, compasionate, and caring cooperative state. The former leads to where we are now in human history, the latter, rarely exercised, leads to our highest potential, returning us to a happy, prosperous, environmental-concerned human race with various cultural differences but united in the success of each and every person, should they choose to participate. So, no, no computer logic engine at present can in any way mimic the totality of "human intelligence" because very few people understand human nature, so they can only literally "ape" it. They can't even approach simulating what is going on within us, the only moral beings on this planet, and the only beings here with the power to consciously change ourselves and our environment, for better or worse, it all being our choice, however subconscious and inertial for the vast majority.

mjburgess 2y ago
I see no difference today between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War and the recent news from the middle east, ukraine, and even, korea. We fight to establish hierarchies of dominance called, "monopolies of violence", that we have social allegiance to. If a competing "dominance regime" is in our neighbourhood, we draw territorial boundaries -- and if these fail, riot, and if that fails, kill. The strategy of intragroup 'mutual aid' is common across the animal kingdom -- and is paired with hostility to 'foreign aid' in its literal sense. The achievement of the modern world is massive amounts of abundance which increases our generosity beyond typical chimpanzee proportions -- but not by much. And upon a single attack, or moment of scarcity, we return back exactly to our genocidal defaults -- which is to say, group-centred violence. Abundance and 'wars only on our borders' creates a dangerous illusion of equanimity which is moreso just, "the feeling of an ape fat, tired and safe".
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Yes, my recent comment history contains the explanation for why we have the potential for all of that but also to be true humanitarians. The short of it is that we can choose to learn how to be better by actually changing ourself, and then being a positive force in the world. It is the Way, but we must choose it, after first seeking to escape our natural ignorance to the possibility.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    You're getting lost in the 'free-will' aspect and thinking you could 'choose' to be good. “Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.” ― Arthur Schopenhauer
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      That sentence literally makes no sense, obviously coming from the spoiled mind of a coddled rich kid. The fact is that you chose to write what you wrote, for good or ill. I spent all day yesterday explaining the truth of our moral existence to y'all here, conversing with a very fine fellow who has a bit of knowledge. It brought me a joy that no one else on this site has ever felt. It was electric, sans drugs of any kind, and only a couple of sips of coffee all day, which is very rare for me. No, there's a force within you that will work its damnedest to get you to quit reading it before you get to the bottom. It starts in that post about Maria Konnakova's poetry article, but that's not the important part, or even my grand-reply (reply to my initial reply). Most people don't have the intellectual curiosity and bravery to read such utterly new information, but if you can read drivel from AS, you can make through one (rather long) page of mine. I triple-dog dare ya ;-) And remember, ignorance of the truth is a human vice that we must fight and defeat, in order to choose the better path, the Path of Love. Giving in to ignorance is a choice between good and evil, my friend. I hope you choose well, but you'll likely choose to rebel against the truth, and instead keep believing the lies that have been told to you, which is our body's monkey-inheritance. Happy choosing! I truly wish you all success and happiness in this world, but that latter one is dependent upon our learning and manifesting the truth, my friend.
otikik 2y ago
I would say that consciousness is a necessary requirement in order to have moral compass. But I would not equate the two.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  True, but our consciousness comes with an integral moral compass that we are completely free to utterly ignore or even act in opposition to. It's our gift and our responsibility, and our absolute choice, for good or ill.
  - raddan 2y ago
    Is it actually integral? I’m not sure. Try asking a person whether some arbitrary scenario is right or wrong and why. A good null hypothesis is that, for people with no training in morality or ethics, responses will be uniformly distributed over outcomes.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Yes, but we can choose to ignore it. Ignorance of our human nature potentials is our choice, too, and that's the reason for the inertia of the world's societies, including ones that claim to be religious. The key is that, just as our physical bodies have developmental stages of ever-increasing capability, so does our moral compass. We must learn how to not only use it, but to develop it and fine-tune over time, and we must train and use our mind to self-evolve ourselves. Note that we can use our free will to de-tune it as well so that we have pointed ourselves in the direction opposite to our happiness, and that of those we come in contact with. In other words, we are free to use our abilities to create unhappiness, out of sadistic pleasure. The first step of the spiritual path is awakening to this highest of human potential, where we learn to willfully and with difficult effort develop our moral compass in the direction of compassionate concern for the well-being of our fellow human beings. This is why the selfish -- to themselves and their in-group -- people of the world are loath to hear the term "woke"; they take pleasure in remaining ignorant of both the unhappiness they cause and thus karmically receive by their selfish actions. And the same impulse within us that seeks to keep us ignorant of our highest human potential, is also keen to keep its ideals, attitudes, and behaviors off other people's radar. The development of a selflessly compassionate morality become like garlic to a vampire (and they do suck, and suck the life-blood out of the world's systems and people, for sure, causing so much misery by their efforts). So, yes, our moral compasses are each in various states of development, from the utterly ignored to sometimes-positive-sometimes-negative to the fully developed. As usual, such distributions follow a bell curveish shape. But only the long tail in the positive direction understands and manifests the highest morality. The middle bulk are hit or miss, per their cultures' predilections and the circumstances of their life. And the negative tail are the uttlerly selfish evil bastards of the world. You can find a full explication of our human nature to self-evolve and the process of manifesting such change in the deep dialog I had yesterday under my comment to Maria Konnikova's poetry article submission. You have to skip past my initial reply and its grand-reply to get to the meat of it.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
"moral compass" Right from the start, so many assumptions. It is going a little under the radar, but AI is really throwing the religions into a tizzy now that they are being forced to think about these things. In the good old days, you could just trust the bible to say how we were created. Now people are being forced to think about it for the first time. Where do morals come from? Do they even exist? Who am I? What am I doing here? Like whole new generation having an existential crisis.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  If you dare, you can read my recent comment history for the explanation, but I doubt you're going to like it. And it is the explanation. Someone had to do it!

mjburgess 2y ago

I see no difference today between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War and the recent news from the middle east, ukraine, and even, korea. We fight to establish hierarchies of dominance called, "monopolies of violence", that we have social allegiance to. If a competing "dominance regime" is in our neighbourhood, we draw territorial boundaries -- and if these fail, riot, and if that fails, kill. The strategy of intragroup 'mutual aid' is common across the animal kingdom -- and is paired with hostility to 'foreign aid' in its literal sense. The achievement of the modern world is massive amounts of abundance which increases our generosity beyond typical chimpanzee proportions -- but not by much. And upon a single attack, or moment of scarcity, we return back exactly to our genocidal defaults -- which is to say, group-centred violence. Abundance and 'wars only on our borders' creates a dangerous illusion of equanimity which is moreso just, "the feeling of an ape fat, tired and safe".

MrMcCall 2y ago
Yes, my recent comment history contains the explanation for why we have the potential for all of that but also to be true humanitarians. The short of it is that we can choose to learn how to be better by actually changing ourself, and then being a positive force in the world. It is the Way, but we must choose it, after first seeking to escape our natural ignorance to the possibility.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  You're getting lost in the 'free-will' aspect and thinking you could 'choose' to be good. “Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.” ― Arthur Schopenhauer
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    That sentence literally makes no sense, obviously coming from the spoiled mind of a coddled rich kid. The fact is that you chose to write what you wrote, for good or ill. I spent all day yesterday explaining the truth of our moral existence to y'all here, conversing with a very fine fellow who has a bit of knowledge. It brought me a joy that no one else on this site has ever felt. It was electric, sans drugs of any kind, and only a couple of sips of coffee all day, which is very rare for me. No, there's a force within you that will work its damnedest to get you to quit reading it before you get to the bottom. It starts in that post about Maria Konnakova's poetry article, but that's not the important part, or even my grand-reply (reply to my initial reply). Most people don't have the intellectual curiosity and bravery to read such utterly new information, but if you can read drivel from AS, you can make through one (rather long) page of mine. I triple-dog dare ya ;-) And remember, ignorance of the truth is a human vice that we must fight and defeat, in order to choose the better path, the Path of Love. Giving in to ignorance is a choice between good and evil, my friend. I hope you choose well, but you'll likely choose to rebel against the truth, and instead keep believing the lies that have been told to you, which is our body's monkey-inheritance. Happy choosing! I truly wish you all success and happiness in this world, but that latter one is dependent upon our learning and manifesting the truth, my friend.

otikik 2y ago

I would say that consciousness is a necessary requirement in order to have moral compass. But I would not equate the two.

MrMcCall 2y ago
True, but our consciousness comes with an integral moral compass that we are completely free to utterly ignore or even act in opposition to. It's our gift and our responsibility, and our absolute choice, for good or ill.
- raddan 2y ago
  Is it actually integral? I’m not sure. Try asking a person whether some arbitrary scenario is right or wrong and why. A good null hypothesis is that, for people with no training in morality or ethics, responses will be uniformly distributed over outcomes.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    Yes, but we can choose to ignore it. Ignorance of our human nature potentials is our choice, too, and that's the reason for the inertia of the world's societies, including ones that claim to be religious. The key is that, just as our physical bodies have developmental stages of ever-increasing capability, so does our moral compass. We must learn how to not only use it, but to develop it and fine-tune over time, and we must train and use our mind to self-evolve ourselves. Note that we can use our free will to de-tune it as well so that we have pointed ourselves in the direction opposite to our happiness, and that of those we come in contact with. In other words, we are free to use our abilities to create unhappiness, out of sadistic pleasure. The first step of the spiritual path is awakening to this highest of human potential, where we learn to willfully and with difficult effort develop our moral compass in the direction of compassionate concern for the well-being of our fellow human beings. This is why the selfish -- to themselves and their in-group -- people of the world are loath to hear the term "woke"; they take pleasure in remaining ignorant of both the unhappiness they cause and thus karmically receive by their selfish actions. And the same impulse within us that seeks to keep us ignorant of our highest human potential, is also keen to keep its ideals, attitudes, and behaviors off other people's radar. The development of a selflessly compassionate morality become like garlic to a vampire (and they do suck, and suck the life-blood out of the world's systems and people, for sure, causing so much misery by their efforts). So, yes, our moral compasses are each in various states of development, from the utterly ignored to sometimes-positive-sometimes-negative to the fully developed. As usual, such distributions follow a bell curveish shape. But only the long tail in the positive direction understands and manifests the highest morality. The middle bulk are hit or miss, per their cultures' predilections and the circumstances of their life. And the negative tail are the uttlerly selfish evil bastards of the world. You can find a full explication of our human nature to self-evolve and the process of manifesting such change in the deep dialog I had yesterday under my comment to Maria Konnikova's poetry article submission. You have to skip past my initial reply and its grand-reply to get to the meat of it.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

"moral compass" Right from the start, so many assumptions. It is going a little under the radar, but AI is really throwing the religions into a tizzy now that they are being forced to think about these things. In the good old days, you could just trust the bible to say how we were created. Now people are being forced to think about it for the first time. Where do morals come from? Do they even exist? Who am I? What am I doing here? Like whole new generation having an existential crisis.

MrMcCall 2y ago
If you dare, you can read my recent comment history for the explanation, but I doubt you're going to like it. And it is the explanation. Someone had to do it!