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Yes, it's unfortunate and we very well might be headed towards a French Revolution era. I hope people on both sides of those phrases remember how many benign p

Yes, it's unfortunate and we very well might be headed towards a French Revolution era. I hope people on both sides of those phrases remember how many benign people were killed during the French Revolution, to say nothing of how many "true believers" were as well (Robespierre was also executed by guillotine).

ttyprintk 2y ago
Revolutions are fascinating. The Reign of Terror served as a warning to plenty of non-peasants. But, to get there, the army of the monarchy had to kill thousands of peasants without any warning or recognition of their humanity. So I think people who know the Revolution wonder whether people are reacting like we’re at the beginning, or the middle.
- BoxFour 2y ago
  The French Revolution is generally agreed to have started with the third estate forming their own assembly and storming the Bastille a month later to depose the king. Whatever you think of Jan 6, we clearly haven't deposed the President nor has any vocal section of Congress formed their own legislature so any argument that the revolution has actually begun seems specious or is stretching the definition of the word "revolution" so much as to be meaningless. Revolutions usually involve going through a door of no-return, and there's little evidence to suggest we've hit that point. Congress could, tomorrow, announce a wealth tax and sweeping reforms and etc and most aggrievances would be resolved. We don't say a ball is on the ground just because it's in freefall and likely to be on the ground shortly barring any last-second intervention.
  - ttyprintk 2y ago
    Yet the right-wing narrative building since 2016 is that Trump and close legislative allies are counter-revolutionary. “You’re not going to have a country anymore” is not suggesting a return to a 1950s tax regimen.
    - BoxFour 2y ago
      Oh here’s my other favorite part of this discussion: Which revolution are we talking about? Left vs right? Wealthy vs poor? Capitalism vs Socialism (yes, that is very different from the previous one)? All extremely different revolutions even if they’re all bubbling to the surface now! Hopefully when the glorious revolution comes, it’s the one people are hoping for and not one of the other ones. There are plenty of people who will find this murder and the reasoning behind it abhorrent but still support violent overthrow of existing power structures.
      - ttyprintk 2y ago
        Hearhear. I suppose the first tenet of conservatism in light of the education of founders of America is that rapid change in social order tends to be a net negative. Other preoccupations have been bolted on, but now we see a Republican Party that itself is changing faster than the Democratic Party.
NoGravitas 2y ago
“THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.” ― Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
- mac-attack 2y ago
  Timely as ever

ttyprintk 2y ago

Revolutions are fascinating. The Reign of Terror served as a warning to plenty of non-peasants. But, to get there, the army of the monarchy had to kill thousands of peasants without any warning or recognition of their humanity. So I think people who know the Revolution wonder whether people are reacting like we’re at the beginning, or the middle.

BoxFour 2y ago
The French Revolution is generally agreed to have started with the third estate forming their own assembly and storming the Bastille a month later to depose the king. Whatever you think of Jan 6, we clearly haven't deposed the President nor has any vocal section of Congress formed their own legislature so any argument that the revolution has actually begun seems specious or is stretching the definition of the word "revolution" so much as to be meaningless. Revolutions usually involve going through a door of no-return, and there's little evidence to suggest we've hit that point. Congress could, tomorrow, announce a wealth tax and sweeping reforms and etc and most aggrievances would be resolved. We don't say a ball is on the ground just because it's in freefall and likely to be on the ground shortly barring any last-second intervention.
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  Yet the right-wing narrative building since 2016 is that Trump and close legislative allies are counter-revolutionary. “You’re not going to have a country anymore” is not suggesting a return to a 1950s tax regimen.
  - BoxFour 2y ago
    Oh here’s my other favorite part of this discussion: Which revolution are we talking about? Left vs right? Wealthy vs poor? Capitalism vs Socialism (yes, that is very different from the previous one)? All extremely different revolutions even if they’re all bubbling to the surface now! Hopefully when the glorious revolution comes, it’s the one people are hoping for and not one of the other ones. There are plenty of people who will find this murder and the reasoning behind it abhorrent but still support violent overthrow of existing power structures.
    - ttyprintk 2y ago
      Hearhear. I suppose the first tenet of conservatism in light of the education of founders of America is that rapid change in social order tends to be a net negative. Other preoccupations have been bolted on, but now we see a Republican Party that itself is changing faster than the Democratic Party.

NoGravitas 2y ago

“THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.” ― Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

mac-attack 2y ago
Timely as ever