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Taught or forced? That’s ridiculous. My kids like to play in our yard. I do woodwork as a hobby. My neighbors spend summer by their pool. I like my privacy. I

by wepple 2y ago

Taught or forced? That’s ridiculous. My kids like to play in our yard. I do woodwork as a hobby. My neighbors spend summer by their pool. I like my privacy. I like quiet and space. I like strong community. I spent 15 years apartment living all over the world, and couldn’t be happier moving to the suburbs.

rwyinuse 2y ago
I agree. I wouldn't move to city center no matter how affordable or cheap it was. Living in an apartment block severely limits the way I can spend my free time compared to an actual house with a yard.
- scrollaway 2y ago
  So get a house with a yard in Europe and get the best of both worlds. You know this exists here, too? Or just come visit a bit and be another name on the list of Americans who had their mind blown.
  - rwyinuse 2y ago
    I was talking about city centers. Good luck finding a house with a yard from city center of a major European city, for a price that you can afford without being a millionaire. Just like in America, living in a proper house in Europe does usually mean moving further away from city center into suburbs. The main difference is that those suburbs do have better public transportation.
  - wepple 2y ago
    > Or just come visit a bit and be another name on the list of Americans who had their mind blown. I’m not American (but live here), and have lived in Europe and traveled most of it. This HN hivemind if believing there is one type of person and one type of lifestyle is absolute lazy nonsense. I’m guessing you already know why I don’t need to drive a large pickup truck too?
DanielHB 2y ago
Suburbs and detached houses are available in Europe as well, often with good public transport access (although there are plenty where you need a bicycle to get to a train station). It is just apartments are much cheaper and you can often not have a car if you live in an apartment.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >It is just apartments are much cheaper Where? Appartements in downtown Munich cost as much as in San Jose but salaries are one third of that.
  - DanielHB 2y ago
    I said suburbs in Europe, not downtown. Downtown is unaffordable EVERYWHERE in the world, even in 3rd world countries.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      Suburbs are cheap where? On what salary? Munich suburbs are equally unaffordable to buy something on a Munich wage, unless you're talking about buying in the boonies where you need to drive everywhere but that's no longer the suburbs but a whole different city/village, or you're a high roller at a FAANG, but that excludes 95% of working class people. My ex originally is from there and I used to work there and my colleagues from the Texas office had more purchasing power at local real-estate than their counterparts from the Munich office.
  - immibis 2y ago
    you said Munich. Go look at Berlin.
supplied_demand 2y ago
It seems like it might be taught. I live in a Chicago neighborhood and have all of these things (a yard with a garden, space for woodworking, neighbors with pools, privacy, quiet space, strong community). Not everyone who lives in a city is in a highrise downtown, most aren't. Not everyone that lives in a city is in an apartment. You wouldn't know that by reading this thread. The two options seem to be a large house in the suburbs or a highrise downtown.
- wepple 2y ago
  All of these things have magnitudes. Have you ever built a cedar strip canoe, or are you making wooden spoons? It would cost double what I pay for me to live with 1/4 of the space in a city. I made a pretty intentional decision about what I wanted, and actually have far more space than where I grew up. I was actually taught to live on less, but have gone in the far opposite direction.
  - spamizbad 2y ago
    I live in Chicago. I have 350sqft garage and a partially-finished conditioned 280sqft attic room that functions as a studio space. I have more "workshop" space than most of my friends in the suburbs who mostly just treat their garages as a storage space with a little workbench in the corner. My home is over a century old, although the garage is only 25 years old. Now, can suburban homes offer you MORE space? Absolutely! And if I had the kind of hobbies that merited that additional space I'd probably want to live there. However, as someone who grew up in the suburbs, has friends in the suburbs, etc - the number of friends I have who actually use that space for enjoyment and not junk storage is literally just 1 guy who has a sweet CNC and metal working space in his garage and basement. Everyone else has a garage used for cars + storage and a basement rumpus room with maybe a tiny 8x8 workshop somewhere near the mechanicals (HVAC and Water heater)
    - wepple 2y ago
      Perhaps I’m simply not normal, and hence frustrated that someone suggested my desires are forced or taught. I do tend to be the one neighbor out in the yard the most by an order of magnitude. I also have a 60 acre rural property because even a quarter acre in the suburbs doesn’t give me enough space to play.

by wepple 2y ago

rwyinuse 2y ago

I agree. I wouldn't move to city center no matter how affordable or cheap it was. Living in an apartment block severely limits the way I can spend my free time compared to an actual house with a yard.

scrollaway 2y ago
So get a house with a yard in Europe and get the best of both worlds. You know this exists here, too? Or just come visit a bit and be another name on the list of Americans who had their mind blown.
- rwyinuse 2y ago
  I was talking about city centers. Good luck finding a house with a yard from city center of a major European city, for a price that you can afford without being a millionaire. Just like in America, living in a proper house in Europe does usually mean moving further away from city center into suburbs. The main difference is that those suburbs do have better public transportation.
- wepple 2y ago
  > Or just come visit a bit and be another name on the list of Americans who had their mind blown. I’m not American (but live here), and have lived in Europe and traveled most of it. This HN hivemind if believing there is one type of person and one type of lifestyle is absolute lazy nonsense. I’m guessing you already know why I don’t need to drive a large pickup truck too?

DanielHB 2y ago

Suburbs and detached houses are available in Europe as well, often with good public transport access (although there are plenty where you need a bicycle to get to a train station). It is just apartments are much cheaper and you can often not have a car if you live in an apartment.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
>It is just apartments are much cheaper Where? Appartements in downtown Munich cost as much as in San Jose but salaries are one third of that.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  I said suburbs in Europe, not downtown. Downtown is unaffordable EVERYWHERE in the world, even in 3rd world countries.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    Suburbs are cheap where? On what salary? Munich suburbs are equally unaffordable to buy something on a Munich wage, unless you're talking about buying in the boonies where you need to drive everywhere but that's no longer the suburbs but a whole different city/village, or you're a high roller at a FAANG, but that excludes 95% of working class people. My ex originally is from there and I used to work there and my colleagues from the Texas office had more purchasing power at local real-estate than their counterparts from the Munich office.
- immibis 2y ago
  you said Munich. Go look at Berlin.

supplied_demand 2y ago

It seems like it might be taught. I live in a Chicago neighborhood and have all of these things (a yard with a garden, space for woodworking, neighbors with pools, privacy, quiet space, strong community). Not everyone who lives in a city is in a highrise downtown, most aren't. Not everyone that lives in a city is in an apartment. You wouldn't know that by reading this thread. The two options seem to be a large house in the suburbs or a highrise downtown.

wepple 2y ago
All of these things have magnitudes. Have you ever built a cedar strip canoe, or are you making wooden spoons? It would cost double what I pay for me to live with 1/4 of the space in a city. I made a pretty intentional decision about what I wanted, and actually have far more space than where I grew up. I was actually taught to live on less, but have gone in the far opposite direction.
- spamizbad 2y ago
  I live in Chicago. I have 350sqft garage and a partially-finished conditioned 280sqft attic room that functions as a studio space. I have more "workshop" space than most of my friends in the suburbs who mostly just treat their garages as a storage space with a little workbench in the corner. My home is over a century old, although the garage is only 25 years old. Now, can suburban homes offer you MORE space? Absolutely! And if I had the kind of hobbies that merited that additional space I'd probably want to live there. However, as someone who grew up in the suburbs, has friends in the suburbs, etc - the number of friends I have who actually use that space for enjoyment and not junk storage is literally just 1 guy who has a sweet CNC and metal working space in his garage and basement. Everyone else has a garage used for cars + storage and a basement rumpus room with maybe a tiny 8x8 workshop somewhere near the mechanicals (HVAC and Water heater)
  - wepple 2y ago
    Perhaps I’m simply not normal, and hence frustrated that someone suggested my desires are forced or taught. I do tend to be the one neighbor out in the yard the most by an order of magnitude. I also have a 60 acre rural property because even a quarter acre in the suburbs doesn’t give me enough space to play.