5 ms·

Tesla is suffering from Chinese EV competition, but the German car brands are suffering much worse. Just look at this UX disaster: https://x.com/teslaxander/st

by gizmo 2y ago

Tesla is suffering from Chinese EV competition, but the German car brands are suffering much worse. Just look at this UX disaster: https://x.com/teslaxander/status/1864202319925035083 https://x.com/teslaxander/status/1864202319925035083 Is it any wonder that the German car industry is imploding? I also don't share your pessimism about Starlink. Right now it's unclear what the killer application for Starlink will be, but it's awesome technology and even if it's only used in very remote areas it will still be worth it. When you only invest in technology that is immediately valuable you lose out on the technological revolutions that take a while to play out. Imagine having the capability of building something like Starlink but not doing it because the bean counters don't see the point.

Retric 2y ago
I’d hardly call BMW’s current sales numbers “imploding” or “suffering”. They’re even doing quite well inside China. VW saw a 12% increase in sales in 2023, the’re currently #2 globally behind Toyota. But that’s not really the narrative people have about European car companies. (Ed: Not that the nominal nationality of a company with global manufacturing and significant international ownership is telling the whole story.)
- gizmo 2y ago
  > LONDON/FRANKFURT, Nov 6 (Reuters) - BMW (BMWG.DE) on Wednesday reported a 61% drop in its third-quarter profit, missing analyst expectations because of slumping China sales and brake problems and sending its shares to their lowest level in more than 2-1/2 years. > In October, the German automaker reported that its third-quarter sales in China had fallen by a third. > Rival German automakers Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz are also struggling with falling sales in China caused by a weak economy and intense competition. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/bmw-reports-drop-earnings-related-china-brake-issues-2024-11-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/bmw-re... > "I don't like talking about the competition so much but I drive the Xiaomi – we flew one from Shanghai to Chicago and I've been driving it for six month now and I don't want to give it up", Ford CEO Jim Farley Chinese cars are getting better every year and nobody can match them on price. That's the real story here. The narrative is shifting because more and more people realize that the EU doesn't have an answer except for tariffs and other protectionist measures.
  - Retric 2y ago
    Meanwhile China is still BMW’s largest market, well ahead of US sales. It’s a little early to say they can’t compete rather than this being a brander situation as overall Chinese customer demand is down and they’re a luxury brand. So sure, profits are down significantly but it’s still a very profitable company.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >the EU doesn't have an answer except for tariffs and other protectionist measures. You can't have an answer if you're competing with a labor force that's working 9-9-6 while your labor force is working 35h weeks on paper (much less in practice), gets 40 vacation days per year, get paid sick leave whenever they don't feel like coming to work, and highly paid underperformers are unable to be fired due to unions. German workers could afford that cushy lifestyle when their auto industry was the most cutting edge and valuable in the world, but once it's not anymore, they'll have to accept a new reality of more work for less pay if they want to have jobs or an industry.
    - Retric 2y ago
      Hours worked translate into annual pay for workers, but productivity and hourly wages determine how competitive a company is. Fast food is filled with part time employees because those companies benefit from doing so, it’s one way to keep their costs down.
      - Cumpiler69 2y ago
        Employee productivity is a flawed metric in most large companies, which are filled with dead weight cashing good paychecks but they're profitable because they monopolized certain markets or sectors which means they can afford all that inefficiency. The knives and chopping block come out the moment profits drop, and that time is neigh for a lot of German companies.
        Retric 2y ago
        It’s unusually difficult to be dead weight on an assembly line. There’s definitely more and less effective employees inside of auto companies, but when you can directly measure productivity people can only slack so much. Rather than competition the larger story is companies trying to managing the EV transition. It’s inherently difficult when most buyers are still choosing ICE but EV’s need huge R&D investments and are generally unprofitable. We just entered the territory where sales aren’t small enough to simply absorb per unit losses as irrelevant.

by gizmo 2y ago

Retric 2y ago

I’d hardly call BMW’s current sales numbers “imploding” or “suffering”. They’re even doing quite well inside China. VW saw a 12% increase in sales in 2023, the’re currently #2 globally behind Toyota. But that’s not really the narrative people have about European car companies. (Ed: Not that the nominal nationality of a company with global manufacturing and significant international ownership is telling the whole story.)

gizmo 2y ago
> LONDON/FRANKFURT, Nov 6 (Reuters) - BMW (BMWG.DE) on Wednesday reported a 61% drop in its third-quarter profit, missing analyst expectations because of slumping China sales and brake problems and sending its shares to their lowest level in more than 2-1/2 years. > In October, the German automaker reported that its third-quarter sales in China had fallen by a third. > Rival German automakers Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz are also struggling with falling sales in China caused by a weak economy and intense competition. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/bmw-reports-drop-earnings-related-china-brake-issues-2024-11-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/bmw-re... > "I don't like talking about the competition so much but I drive the Xiaomi – we flew one from Shanghai to Chicago and I've been driving it for six month now and I don't want to give it up", Ford CEO Jim Farley Chinese cars are getting better every year and nobody can match them on price. That's the real story here. The narrative is shifting because more and more people realize that the EU doesn't have an answer except for tariffs and other protectionist measures.
- Retric 2y ago
  Meanwhile China is still BMW’s largest market, well ahead of US sales. It’s a little early to say they can’t compete rather than this being a brander situation as overall Chinese customer demand is down and they’re a luxury brand. So sure, profits are down significantly but it’s still a very profitable company.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >the EU doesn't have an answer except for tariffs and other protectionist measures. You can't have an answer if you're competing with a labor force that's working 9-9-6 while your labor force is working 35h weeks on paper (much less in practice), gets 40 vacation days per year, get paid sick leave whenever they don't feel like coming to work, and highly paid underperformers are unable to be fired due to unions. German workers could afford that cushy lifestyle when their auto industry was the most cutting edge and valuable in the world, but once it's not anymore, they'll have to accept a new reality of more work for less pay if they want to have jobs or an industry.
  - Retric 2y ago
    Hours worked translate into annual pay for workers, but productivity and hourly wages determine how competitive a company is. Fast food is filled with part time employees because those companies benefit from doing so, it’s one way to keep their costs down.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      Employee productivity is a flawed metric in most large companies, which are filled with dead weight cashing good paychecks but they're profitable because they monopolized certain markets or sectors which means they can afford all that inefficiency. The knives and chopping block come out the moment profits drop, and that time is neigh for a lot of German companies.
      - Retric 2y ago
        It’s unusually difficult to be dead weight on an assembly line. There’s definitely more and less effective employees inside of auto companies, but when you can directly measure productivity people can only slack so much. Rather than competition the larger story is companies trying to managing the EV transition. It’s inherently difficult when most buyers are still choosing ICE but EV’s need huge R&D investments and are generally unprofitable. We just entered the territory where sales aren’t small enough to simply absorb per unit losses as irrelevant.