6 ms·

And if you borrow that money is even better because they just created the money for you to add to the GDP, and now it will have lots of sweet service fees and i

by Guthur 2y ago

And if you borrow that money is even better because they just created the money for you to add to the GDP, and now it will have lots of sweet service fees and interest in top of that. And on a side note because US dollars are the reserve currency and only created in one country they can go shopping around hovering up every asset and resource.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
The US produces a lot of things others want to buy, including stability and security, and that is why non Americans want USD and hence others give Americans purchasing power.
- Guthur 2y ago
  They are not given a choice mate, the US has shown itself quite willing to unilaterally dispose of any government it feels to not be doing exactly what they want. And is on record to at least plan to kill it's own citizens to justify such actions. The narrative that we all have peace because of the US is well and truly broken, the propoganda can't cover the smell, it stinks to bad.
  - jumping_frog 2y ago
    The other important stuff is due to petrodollars and US controlled swift system, there is no real price discovery in the world economic system.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    I’m sure China/Russia/Israel/India/Saudi Arabia/Iran/North Korea/Pakistan/etc are all doing exactly what the US wants. The US is so effective that it can force a country that it embargoes (Iran) to sell oil in USD to a country with its own currency (India). https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/10/17/inside-the-secret-oil-trade-that-funds-irans-wars https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/10/17/i... And the US allows articles to be written about China and Saudi Arabia considering buying and selling oil in Yuan, ostensibly to provide cover for the fact that the US is actually forcing both China to buy in USD and Saudi Arabia to sell in USD. https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-considers-accepting-yuan-instead-of-dollars-for-chinese-oil-sales-11647351541 https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-considers-acceptin... It couldn’t possibly be that Iran trusts USD to have a more reliable purchasing power than an Indian Rupee, or that Saudi Arabia would rather bet on stability from USD rather than the Yuan.
- Jensson 2y ago
  Trade balance shows US doesn't produce that much others wants to buy while others produce a lot of things US wants to buy. You almost never see "Made in USA" outside of USA, except some agricultural products like almonds from California.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Trade balance isn’t going to show a lot of what the US offers, which is not readily convertible to a numeric figure. Changes in currency exchange rates are the best way I know of to get a pulse on what the collective population of the world thinks about what the US offers. Things like choosing to do business in the US because they overall trust the courts, or investing in US companies because they overall trust the management and SEC oversight. Or even just investing in US land because they trust the internal stability and lack of external threats.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > Changes in currency exchange rates are the best way I know of to get a pulse on what the collective population of the world thinks about what the US offers. No it isn't, many non-American companies trades in US dollars without anything ever having to do with the USA. The world doesn't change what currency it trades in that easily, people will stick with the dollar until USA screws up majorly, like every previous world currency did.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The world trades in many currencies, in varying amounts. Supply and demand of currencies is always in flux. The continued strength of the USD is just a vote of confidence in the buying power of the USD in the future.
        Jensson 2y ago
        > The continued strength of the USD is just a vote of confidence in the buying power of the USD in the future. Right, but that buying power comes from buying Chinese goods, so a European likes USD since China accepts it and you can buy stuff from them with it. Nobody buys American so that isn't a factor. If China stopped accepting USD the demand for the currency would drop like a rock, since it is the main exporter in the world.
- jumping_frog 2y ago
  US is the very reason why there is instability around the world. US touts security for itself as reason while causing insecurity for other nations, (either through military adventurism or social engineered coups) so that they can't rise.
  - corimaith 2y ago
    That's like saying the government is the biggest source of instability since they are sole entity performing the most violence. Saying the US is preventing other countries from rising in the same thread where people are complaining about US industrial decline is paradoxical, it's precisely those industries were given to developing countries to foster their rise, what the neoliberals underestimated was how that convergence would lead to resurgence of palingentic ultranationalism that is why the world is so unstable today.
    - jumping_frog 2y ago
      US is happy if a country becomes its vassal state just like G7, EU and Japan. US likes if other countries don't have independent thought or freewill. There is nothing largesse about US in this "those industries were given to developing countries to foster their rise". If it wanted to help others, it would have helped Africa the most. I can't believe the amount of brainwashing people have undergone. How the U.S. Uses Wars to Fuel Perpetual Consumption｜Yanis Varoufakis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjLEmclSbO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjLEmclSbO0
      - corimaith 2y ago
        Except Africa has in fact received billions in aid. Building factories & infrastructure like the BRI was all tried in the 60s, it never worked out due to failures of ISI development and weak governments and instuitions. We've had 40 years of learning hard mistakes, if you believe the Western System is exploitative then the logical conclusion would be that isolation from that system would provide better outcomes, when in reality those that did stagnated. Domestic consumption markets are far too weak initially to drive growth, it's only through the focus on export surplus capacity to sell to open foreign markets that one can provide the impetus for growth. But that's only possible so in as far the West or really the USA willingly chooses to open it's markets and let it's industries and blue-collar workers decline. From a global perspective, with the assumption that these developing markets would open their markets eventually would have been optimal in providing a path for everyone to develop. Except in reality, many of these countries especially now in the 2020s never intended to open their markets, they're perpetuating the massive trade imbalance with their neomercantalism. Which Varoufakis himself btw points out in The Global Minotaur as unsustainable. Can you really say the USA is the oppressor in this instance or the victim in maintaining that massive trade deficit? If America decides to go protectionist (which is happening with Trump), the entire damn system collapses and the pathways for development will be closed for future nations. It's not a question of whether China is building infrastructure or cheap cars for developing nations, it's whether they will be willing to let their industries be gouged by future upstarts. And with economic nationalism, the answer will always be no. And that goes for most of the "global south" for that matter. A zero-sum world for a zero-sum worldview. Compared to that, I would argue that America's attempt at positive-sum world was alot more charitable.
jumping_frog 2y ago
Consider this scenario. Dollar holds value for the next 1 year. FED prints dollar. It gives them to BlackRocks of the world. And these vehicles go shopping around the world in emerging markets buying up ownership. Similar to Cantillon effect, others and emerging market are left holding the bag. Here’s How America Really Runs Britain | Aaron Bastani meets Angus Hanton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK7DINiVuPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK7DINiVuPA
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > FED prints dollar. It gives them to BlackRocks of the world. This in nonsense. No such thing happens in the US. Also, as I understand, the Federal Reserve is winding down QE from the last 10+ years.
  - jumping_frog 2y ago
    I was just highlighting a scenario of cantillon effect on the back of reserve currency status. But such a convergence of factors is possible, don't you think? Or atleast it could play out in this manner.

by Guthur 2y ago

lotsofpulp 2y ago

The US produces a lot of things others want to buy, including stability and security, and that is why non Americans want USD and hence others give Americans purchasing power.

Guthur 2y ago
They are not given a choice mate, the US has shown itself quite willing to unilaterally dispose of any government it feels to not be doing exactly what they want. And is on record to at least plan to kill it's own citizens to justify such actions. The narrative that we all have peace because of the US is well and truly broken, the propoganda can't cover the smell, it stinks to bad.
- jumping_frog 2y ago
  The other important stuff is due to petrodollars and US controlled swift system, there is no real price discovery in the world economic system.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  I’m sure China/Russia/Israel/India/Saudi Arabia/Iran/North Korea/Pakistan/etc are all doing exactly what the US wants. The US is so effective that it can force a country that it embargoes (Iran) to sell oil in USD to a country with its own currency (India). https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/10/17/inside-the-secret-oil-trade-that-funds-irans-wars https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/10/17/i... And the US allows articles to be written about China and Saudi Arabia considering buying and selling oil in Yuan, ostensibly to provide cover for the fact that the US is actually forcing both China to buy in USD and Saudi Arabia to sell in USD. https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-considers-accepting-yuan-instead-of-dollars-for-chinese-oil-sales-11647351541 https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-considers-acceptin... It couldn’t possibly be that Iran trusts USD to have a more reliable purchasing power than an Indian Rupee, or that Saudi Arabia would rather bet on stability from USD rather than the Yuan.
Jensson 2y ago
Trade balance shows US doesn't produce that much others wants to buy while others produce a lot of things US wants to buy. You almost never see "Made in USA" outside of USA, except some agricultural products like almonds from California.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Trade balance isn’t going to show a lot of what the US offers, which is not readily convertible to a numeric figure. Changes in currency exchange rates are the best way I know of to get a pulse on what the collective population of the world thinks about what the US offers. Things like choosing to do business in the US because they overall trust the courts, or investing in US companies because they overall trust the management and SEC oversight. Or even just investing in US land because they trust the internal stability and lack of external threats.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    > Changes in currency exchange rates are the best way I know of to get a pulse on what the collective population of the world thinks about what the US offers. No it isn't, many non-American companies trades in US dollars without anything ever having to do with the USA. The world doesn't change what currency it trades in that easily, people will stick with the dollar until USA screws up majorly, like every previous world currency did.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The world trades in many currencies, in varying amounts. Supply and demand of currencies is always in flux. The continued strength of the USD is just a vote of confidence in the buying power of the USD in the future.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        > The continued strength of the USD is just a vote of confidence in the buying power of the USD in the future. Right, but that buying power comes from buying Chinese goods, so a European likes USD since China accepts it and you can buy stuff from them with it. Nobody buys American so that isn't a factor. If China stopped accepting USD the demand for the currency would drop like a rock, since it is the main exporter in the world.
jumping_frog 2y ago
US is the very reason why there is instability around the world. US touts security for itself as reason while causing insecurity for other nations, (either through military adventurism or social engineered coups) so that they can't rise.
- corimaith 2y ago
  That's like saying the government is the biggest source of instability since they are sole entity performing the most violence. Saying the US is preventing other countries from rising in the same thread where people are complaining about US industrial decline is paradoxical, it's precisely those industries were given to developing countries to foster their rise, what the neoliberals underestimated was how that convergence would lead to resurgence of palingentic ultranationalism that is why the world is so unstable today.
  - jumping_frog 2y ago
    US is happy if a country becomes its vassal state just like G7, EU and Japan. US likes if other countries don't have independent thought or freewill. There is nothing largesse about US in this "those industries were given to developing countries to foster their rise". If it wanted to help others, it would have helped Africa the most. I can't believe the amount of brainwashing people have undergone. How the U.S. Uses Wars to Fuel Perpetual Consumption｜Yanis Varoufakis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjLEmclSbO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjLEmclSbO0
    - corimaith 2y ago
      Except Africa has in fact received billions in aid. Building factories & infrastructure like the BRI was all tried in the 60s, it never worked out due to failures of ISI development and weak governments and instuitions. We've had 40 years of learning hard mistakes, if you believe the Western System is exploitative then the logical conclusion would be that isolation from that system would provide better outcomes, when in reality those that did stagnated. Domestic consumption markets are far too weak initially to drive growth, it's only through the focus on export surplus capacity to sell to open foreign markets that one can provide the impetus for growth. But that's only possible so in as far the West or really the USA willingly chooses to open it's markets and let it's industries and blue-collar workers decline. From a global perspective, with the assumption that these developing markets would open their markets eventually would have been optimal in providing a path for everyone to develop. Except in reality, many of these countries especially now in the 2020s never intended to open their markets, they're perpetuating the massive trade imbalance with their neomercantalism. Which Varoufakis himself btw points out in The Global Minotaur as unsustainable. Can you really say the USA is the oppressor in this instance or the victim in maintaining that massive trade deficit? If America decides to go protectionist (which is happening with Trump), the entire damn system collapses and the pathways for development will be closed for future nations. It's not a question of whether China is building infrastructure or cheap cars for developing nations, it's whether they will be willing to let their industries be gouged by future upstarts. And with economic nationalism, the answer will always be no. And that goes for most of the "global south" for that matter. A zero-sum world for a zero-sum worldview. Compared to that, I would argue that America's attempt at positive-sum world was alot more charitable.

jumping_frog 2y ago

Consider this scenario. Dollar holds value for the next 1 year. FED prints dollar. It gives them to BlackRocks of the world. And these vehicles go shopping around the world in emerging markets buying up ownership. Similar to Cantillon effect, others and emerging market are left holding the bag. Here’s How America Really Runs Britain | Aaron Bastani meets Angus Hanton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK7DINiVuPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK7DINiVuPA

throwaway2037 2y ago
> FED prints dollar. It gives them to BlackRocks of the world. This in nonsense. No such thing happens in the US. Also, as I understand, the Federal Reserve is winding down QE from the last 10+ years.
- jumping_frog 2y ago
  I was just highlighting a scenario of cantillon effect on the back of reserve currency status. But such a convergence of factors is possible, don't you think? Or atleast it could play out in this manner.