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I'm failing to understand the proposition behind bitcoin. From what I remember, the amount of BTC is finite, so eventually we will run out of new BTCs, and by

I'm failing to understand the proposition behind bitcoin. From what I remember, the amount of BTC is finite, so eventually we will run out of new BTCs, and by then, most will be held by big institutions and some individuals who didn't want to sell, and it will become yet another luxury commodity like diamonds or gold. Hence, the entire premise of "Bitcoin is the future of money" is kind of stupid, unless it's money for the ultrarich/lucky, because it's not available to the common folks. And even if it was available to the common folks, how do you expect to live in a world where your currency changes value drastically from day to day? Isn't that a characteristic of a defaulted state/currency? But let's say it's not the money of the future, but rather a speculative investment that is "not tied to greedy institutions". How does one sell 10 BTC and cash it out, bypassing the "greedy banks"? Last time I checked, most reputable exchanges are somewhat regulated, and in any way, getting a sudden $1M won't go unnoticed by the government. So yes, I am failing to understand the premise of bitcoin. It seems to fail on both as the currency of the future, as well as unregulated investment instrument.

tmikaeld 2y ago
That's the irony of it all isn't it - since it's bound to traditional currencies for it's valuation, it's essentially the same thing as a traditional currency except you can't inflate it by printing more of it. It is "digital gold" at this point.
omnimus 2y ago
Its a tradable financial asset. You are indeed right that it cannot be money. As finance people were saying from the very start. The whole point of money is that its possible to influence its price.
ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
it's money for the ultrarich/lucky Ok, so let's say you buy 1 Bitcoin today and then we end up in that future. Now 21 million minus one ultrarich lucky guys hold one Bitcoin and one stupid poor guy (you) holds one bitcoin? Or would it make you part of the ultrarich lucky club?
- skwee357 2y ago
  Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand your question/statement. What I wanted to say, is that in its current form, bitcoin IS money for some ultrarich people who have enough of it AND are able to access a commerce world where you can actually buy stuff with it without converting it to fiat currencies. Because last time I checked, I can't buy milk with BTC in my local supermarket, but I bet I can buy some luxury/illegal thing that cost absurd amounts of money (for the common folk) with BTC. Therefor, the mantra of "Bitcoin is the future of money" that's being pushed by BTC/crypto enthusiasts, is false. It MIGHT be a form of money for people who have lots of it, but not the common folk, doing everyday purchases.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
    the mantra of "Bitcoin is the future of money" that's being pushed I don't see that mantra used in the context of Bitcoin's market cap. In the concept of value, the aspects of Bitcoin that are relevant is that it has a broad ownership strucure, is finite in supply, is easy to store, validate and transfer.
    - nicholasbraker 2y ago
      The whole "BTC is the future of money" ship has sailed a long time.
      - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
        I wouldn't say so. As the financial system is set up right now, Bitcoin has a lot of potential to reduce friction. For cross-country payments as well as for buying coffee: Speed, fees, finality. But the lightning network will have to mature first. We will see if the global financial system evolves faster than the Bitcoin ecosystem. I would expect Bitcoin's ecosystem to evolve faster.
        talldayo 2y ago
        The fact that Bitcoin's blockchain is unusable without unofficial, unreliable and slow L2 chains is kinda evidence that it doesn't have much potential left. If you're a serious country considering using Bitcoin, why even use Lightning at all when you could use a fundamentally better-designed currency? Why invest in Bitcoin if it's already breaking?
fragmede 2y ago
The banks are in on it this time. You can buy crypto on Fidelity, starting with as little as $1. Whether that's better or worse than buying SP500 or QQQ or Tbills on their platform is for you to decide. So pay your taxes on $10 million, you'll still have 5 left.
- skwee357 2y ago
  But that's the point I'm making. BTC was "advertised" as either the money of the future, which it is not, or an investment instrument that allows you to bypass government restrictions, which again, it is not, at least not for the common folks. At this point, it's just a very volatile investment/speculation instrument.
  - eric_cc 2y ago
    > BTC was "advertised" as either the money of the future, which it is not You keep casually dismissing it as money. Give it about 2 years and you’ll realize you were incredibly wrong about this take. Between country adoption, lightning, infrastructure, integrations - bitcoin is already there now but it will become undeniable in roughly 2 years time.
    - cesarb 2y ago
      > Give it about 2 years and you’ll realize you were incredibly wrong about this take. [...] but it will become undeniable in roughly 2 years time. I recall reading similar statements more than 2 years ago...
- xtracto 2y ago
  So, the question one has to ask is, why aren't banks and "serious" institutions now behind bitcoin? If it is a scam/fad/etc? The story of Cryptocurrencies reminds me a bit of Linux: "it was a cancer to society" until it was not. And now everyone is adopting it and corps have fucked it with their "open core" offerings. I myself think that the use case of "trustless store and transfer of value" has a LOT of more attraction to what detractors see.
miohtama 2y ago
It's not about luck. I run one of the early Bitcoin exchanges in 2013. We had users from 200 countries, mostly common folks with small amounts. Everyone had a change to make 1000x. Bitcoin has been mostly widely available asset in the world.
- skwee357 2y ago
  When I said luck, I meant people who were among the first to either mine or buy (at an affordable price) whole Bitcoins and held them until this day. It's fine that common folk can buy fractions of BTC, but these amounts won't change their lives. And anyone who can afford to buy >= 1 BTC today, is already wealthy (or stupid).

tmikaeld 2y ago

That's the irony of it all isn't it - since it's bound to traditional currencies for it's valuation, it's essentially the same thing as a traditional currency except you can't inflate it by printing more of it. It is "digital gold" at this point.

omnimus 2y ago

Its a tradable financial asset. You are indeed right that it cannot be money. As finance people were saying from the very start. The whole point of money is that its possible to influence its price.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago

it's money for the ultrarich/lucky Ok, so let's say you buy 1 Bitcoin today and then we end up in that future. Now 21 million minus one ultrarich lucky guys hold one Bitcoin and one stupid poor guy (you) holds one bitcoin? Or would it make you part of the ultrarich lucky club?

skwee357 2y ago
Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand your question/statement. What I wanted to say, is that in its current form, bitcoin IS money for some ultrarich people who have enough of it AND are able to access a commerce world where you can actually buy stuff with it without converting it to fiat currencies. Because last time I checked, I can't buy milk with BTC in my local supermarket, but I bet I can buy some luxury/illegal thing that cost absurd amounts of money (for the common folk) with BTC. Therefor, the mantra of "Bitcoin is the future of money" that's being pushed by BTC/crypto enthusiasts, is false. It MIGHT be a form of money for people who have lots of it, but not the common folk, doing everyday purchases.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  the mantra of "Bitcoin is the future of money" that's being pushed I don't see that mantra used in the context of Bitcoin's market cap. In the concept of value, the aspects of Bitcoin that are relevant is that it has a broad ownership strucure, is finite in supply, is easy to store, validate and transfer.
  - nicholasbraker 2y ago
    The whole "BTC is the future of money" ship has sailed a long time.
    - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
      I wouldn't say so. As the financial system is set up right now, Bitcoin has a lot of potential to reduce friction. For cross-country payments as well as for buying coffee: Speed, fees, finality. But the lightning network will have to mature first. We will see if the global financial system evolves faster than the Bitcoin ecosystem. I would expect Bitcoin's ecosystem to evolve faster.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        The fact that Bitcoin's blockchain is unusable without unofficial, unreliable and slow L2 chains is kinda evidence that it doesn't have much potential left. If you're a serious country considering using Bitcoin, why even use Lightning at all when you could use a fundamentally better-designed currency? Why invest in Bitcoin if it's already breaking?

fragmede 2y ago

The banks are in on it this time. You can buy crypto on Fidelity, starting with as little as $1. Whether that's better or worse than buying SP500 or QQQ or Tbills on their platform is for you to decide. So pay your taxes on $10 million, you'll still have 5 left.

skwee357 2y ago
But that's the point I'm making. BTC was "advertised" as either the money of the future, which it is not, or an investment instrument that allows you to bypass government restrictions, which again, it is not, at least not for the common folks. At this point, it's just a very volatile investment/speculation instrument.
- eric_cc 2y ago
  > BTC was "advertised" as either the money of the future, which it is not You keep casually dismissing it as money. Give it about 2 years and you’ll realize you were incredibly wrong about this take. Between country adoption, lightning, infrastructure, integrations - bitcoin is already there now but it will become undeniable in roughly 2 years time.
  - cesarb 2y ago
    > Give it about 2 years and you’ll realize you were incredibly wrong about this take. [...] but it will become undeniable in roughly 2 years time. I recall reading similar statements more than 2 years ago...
xtracto 2y ago
So, the question one has to ask is, why aren't banks and "serious" institutions now behind bitcoin? If it is a scam/fad/etc? The story of Cryptocurrencies reminds me a bit of Linux: "it was a cancer to society" until it was not. And now everyone is adopting it and corps have fucked it with their "open core" offerings. I myself think that the use case of "trustless store and transfer of value" has a LOT of more attraction to what detractors see.

miohtama 2y ago

It's not about luck. I run one of the early Bitcoin exchanges in 2013. We had users from 200 countries, mostly common folks with small amounts. Everyone had a change to make 1000x. Bitcoin has been mostly widely available asset in the world.

skwee357 2y ago
When I said luck, I meant people who were among the first to either mine or buy (at an affordable price) whole Bitcoins and held them until this day. It's fine that common folk can buy fractions of BTC, but these amounts won't change their lives. And anyone who can afford to buy >= 1 BTC today, is already wealthy (or stupid).