3 ms·

I just struggle to see it's utility

by nadermx 2y ago

testfrequency 2y ago
It’s because there isn’t any
paulryanrogers 2y ago
Somewhere between tulips and gold.
- XCSme 2y ago
  Both are pretty, though.
xyzzy4747 2y ago
It definitely has utility but it is at the same time overhyped IMO. Some examples of utility: 1. Cross-border transfers without needing permission from banks or identification 2. A fungible digital asset you can hoard and nobody can physically take from you if you secure the keys. 3. If you are a business in a gray or black market industry, you can accept payments from customers online without needing permission from payment processors. Many types of businesses are effectively banned by the banking system. 4. It provides a way to obfuscate your wealth which can help protect against asset seizures. Similar to #2.
- jonahbenton 2y ago
  These are all true but far and away the dominant use case is long term (10+ year) store of value/dollar inflation hedge- which sometimes implies #2, but many entities are happy to hold on exchanges. Total BTC market cap at $2T- would guess from how relatively little transaction activity there is that at least $1.5T is due to this use case.
- ajkdhcb2 2y ago
  It isn't fungible at all since every coin has a history which in some cases makes it unspendable, so it is highly risky to accept transfers without a third party chain analysis report, otherwise i agree
  - throwme_123 2y ago
    Report which you don't get from centralized exchanges. So you have to trust them and they should somehow be liable for the provenance of what they sell to you. Probably most CEX don't allocate UTXOs upon buying, but only for withdrawals
    - ajkdhcb2 2y ago
      I am aware of a couple of cases where people received flagged coins from centralised exchanges and had a lot of issues
ajkdhcb2 2y ago
It is scarce, novel, transferable, passed critical mass of popularity long ago, uncensorable to some degree for now. That's all that's needed, it makes it better money than perhaps anything else
wyldfire 2y ago
Its utility is similar to that of cash. But unlike cash it's (1) less fungible (2) much easier to transport (3) harder to secure from theft and/or destruction * (4) value is more volatile than USD/EUR/CAD/AUD (5) incredibly resource intensive to maintain (and growing!). It's not an equity, it's a currency. The Bitcoin network is nigh "indestructible" as long as some folks still consider it useful. This delivers credibility towards the faith required to support some value. If its value dropped by 99% tomorrow (maybe from aggressive global legislation and cooperation among governments), it would still function (but perhaps primarily maintained by sanctioned countries). I think there's significant pros and cons to cryptocurrency in general and Bitcoin specifically. As the emission rate continues to decrease, I suspect its value will stay relatively high relative to what it is now. EDIT: I said in (3) above that it's harder to secure bitcoin from destruction (than cash) but in some ways it's remarkably more robust than cash. You can make as many copies of the keys securing your bitcoins as you like (and/or use multi-sig). Your home burning down would destroy cash, but if you have a backup your bitcoins are preserved. However this is in tension with "secure from theft".
- ConspiracyFact 2y ago
  Show me an economy that only uses bitcoin and doesn’t depend on cashing out to one fiat currency or another and I’ll allow that it’s a currency.
  - OrigamiPastrami 2y ago
    El Salvador.
- ethagnawl 2y ago
  > Its utility is similar to that of cash. In the USA, spending cash doesn't require ~30 minutes of validation or a capital gains report.
  - Empact 2y ago
    Transacting bitcoin via the lightning network is instant. Capital gains is a matter of policy and is likely to change at some point as bitcoin succeeds.
paxys 2y ago
What is the utility of a baseball trading card or a piece of art sitting in a bank vault?
Gigachad 2y ago
There’s “utility” in enabling crime and being able to move massive amounts of wealth fairly easily.
- cypherpunks01 2y ago
  There's utility in being able to move both small and large amounts of value fairly easily. Moving value has high utility for criminals and non-criminals alike. There's utility in remittances, in protecting value from unlawful seizure, and protecting value from incompetent bureaucrats hyper-inflating your national currency.
latchkey 2y ago
My favorite response on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410
LightHugger 2y ago
There is a lot of utility in bypassing the credit card company cartel which have been abusing their position to create a pseudo government to shut down or kill the value of (maybe to make them easier to buy out?) targeted businesses. Or in some cases impose the christian ideology of the owners upon entire countries, most recently japan.
- puzzlingcaptcha 2y ago
  Ah yes, I remember when BTC was going to supplant Visa/Mastercard... 12 years ago.
  - LightHugger 2y ago
    Cryptocurrency when not being used for speculation or investment nonsense has already successfully provided a pressure release valve for abuse by the credit card cartels. It still sucks, and isn't very convenient or good for most transactions or safety. But it works! It would be more ideal to just regulate the credit card companies properly but that appears to be beyond current government bodies.

I just struggle to see it's utility

testfrequency 2y ago

It’s because there isn’t any

paulryanrogers 2y ago

Somewhere between tulips and gold.

XCSme 2y ago
Both are pretty, though.

xyzzy4747 2y ago

It definitely has utility but it is at the same time overhyped IMO. Some examples of utility: 1. Cross-border transfers without needing permission from banks or identification 2. A fungible digital asset you can hoard and nobody can physically take from you if you secure the keys. 3. If you are a business in a gray or black market industry, you can accept payments from customers online without needing permission from payment processors. Many types of businesses are effectively banned by the banking system. 4. It provides a way to obfuscate your wealth which can help protect against asset seizures. Similar to #2.

jonahbenton 2y ago
These are all true but far and away the dominant use case is long term (10+ year) store of value/dollar inflation hedge- which sometimes implies #2, but many entities are happy to hold on exchanges. Total BTC market cap at $2T- would guess from how relatively little transaction activity there is that at least $1.5T is due to this use case.
ajkdhcb2 2y ago
It isn't fungible at all since every coin has a history which in some cases makes it unspendable, so it is highly risky to accept transfers without a third party chain analysis report, otherwise i agree
- throwme_123 2y ago
  Report which you don't get from centralized exchanges. So you have to trust them and they should somehow be liable for the provenance of what they sell to you. Probably most CEX don't allocate UTXOs upon buying, but only for withdrawals
  - ajkdhcb2 2y ago
    I am aware of a couple of cases where people received flagged coins from centralised exchanges and had a lot of issues

ajkdhcb2 2y ago

It is scarce, novel, transferable, passed critical mass of popularity long ago, uncensorable to some degree for now. That's all that's needed, it makes it better money than perhaps anything else

wyldfire 2y ago

Its utility is similar to that of cash. But unlike cash it's (1) less fungible (2) much easier to transport (3) harder to secure from theft and/or destruction * (4) value is more volatile than USD/EUR/CAD/AUD (5) incredibly resource intensive to maintain (and growing!). It's not an equity, it's a currency. The Bitcoin network is nigh "indestructible" as long as some folks still consider it useful. This delivers credibility towards the faith required to support some value. If its value dropped by 99% tomorrow (maybe from aggressive global legislation and cooperation among governments), it would still function (but perhaps primarily maintained by sanctioned countries). I think there's significant pros and cons to cryptocurrency in general and Bitcoin specifically. As the emission rate continues to decrease, I suspect its value will stay relatively high relative to what it is now. EDIT: I said in (3) above that it's harder to secure bitcoin from destruction (than cash) but in some ways it's remarkably more robust than cash. You can make as many copies of the keys securing your bitcoins as you like (and/or use multi-sig). Your home burning down would destroy cash, but if you have a backup your bitcoins are preserved. However this is in tension with "secure from theft".

ConspiracyFact 2y ago
Show me an economy that only uses bitcoin and doesn’t depend on cashing out to one fiat currency or another and I’ll allow that it’s a currency.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y ago
  El Salvador.
ethagnawl 2y ago
> Its utility is similar to that of cash. In the USA, spending cash doesn't require ~30 minutes of validation or a capital gains report.
- Empact 2y ago
  Transacting bitcoin via the lightning network is instant. Capital gains is a matter of policy and is likely to change at some point as bitcoin succeeds.

paxys 2y ago

What is the utility of a baseball trading card or a piece of art sitting in a bank vault?

Gigachad 2y ago

There’s “utility” in enabling crime and being able to move massive amounts of wealth fairly easily.

cypherpunks01 2y ago
There's utility in being able to move both small and large amounts of value fairly easily. Moving value has high utility for criminals and non-criminals alike. There's utility in remittances, in protecting value from unlawful seizure, and protecting value from incompetent bureaucrats hyper-inflating your national currency.

latchkey 2y ago

My favorite response on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410

LightHugger 2y ago

There is a lot of utility in bypassing the credit card company cartel which have been abusing their position to create a pseudo government to shut down or kill the value of (maybe to make them easier to buy out?) targeted businesses. Or in some cases impose the christian ideology of the owners upon entire countries, most recently japan.

puzzlingcaptcha 2y ago
Ah yes, I remember when BTC was going to supplant Visa/Mastercard... 12 years ago.
- LightHugger 2y ago
  Cryptocurrency when not being used for speculation or investment nonsense has already successfully provided a pressure release valve for abuse by the credit card cartels. It still sucks, and isn't very convenient or good for most transactions or safety. But it works! It would be more ideal to just regulate the credit card companies properly but that appears to be beyond current government bodies.