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Hyundai Has Best Month Ever in U.S. Electric SUV Sales Suddenly Double

12 points by m463 2y ago

Terr_ 2y ago
I wonder how much of that corresponds to Tesla losing sales.
Kon-Peki 2y ago
They are doing super-cheap leases. It’s not surprising that people want to take advantage. But this kind of thing usually ends in disaster for the automaker.
- tmellon2 2y ago
  Not necessarily in this scenario - if net manufacturing and battery costs were to fall - given the IC engine requires so many parts. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-ev-boom-threatens-to-push-gasoline-demand-off-a-cliff https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-e...
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    > if net manufacturing and battery costs were to fall That makes it even worse. If costs fall, competitive pressure will force you to lower the price of your new vehicles, which has a knock-on effect of reducing the resale value of each EV you get back from the consumer from leases that are ending. Imagine a $50,000 vehicle. You write a lease that assumes that it will be worth $25,000 in 3 years. Instead of charging the customer $25,000 for the lease, you only charge them $15,000. When they return the vehicle, you sell it for $25,000 as planned. But the total amount of money you collected is $40,000 - a loss of $10,000. Now, what happens if net manufacturing and battery costs drop in those 3 years? Your new cars are on the lot for $40,000 and when the customer turns in their leased vehicle you can only find a buyer for it at $15,000. You've therefore collected $30,000 for your $50,000 car and have to eat a loss of $20,000. Cheap leases get sales on the books today, but come with guaranteed losses years down the road (and you hope the market doesn't tank in the meantime). It might work out well in the end, but rarely does.
tmellon2 2y ago
Every EV that is used to replace personal transport of individuals with long (necessary), regular commutes each day will help in alleviating global warming : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-ev-boom-threatens-to-push-gasoline-demand-off-a-cliff https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-e...
- maeil 2y ago
  And if the EV is heavier than their previous car (generally very likely anywhere other than maybe the US), will increase the biggest single source of microplastics (which also is proving to have significant climate effects) in tire dust.
  - tmellon2 2y ago
    1) EVs are not significantly heavier https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-than-their-ice-equivalents/ https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-... 2) One must also factor in the vast surface fleet that moves Gas and crude oil around : https://www.americangeosciences.org/geoscience-currents/transportation-oil-gas-and-refined-products https://www.americangeosciences.org/geoscience-currents/tran... 3) Tyre manufacturers have taken notice and are working on this problem.
    - maeil 2y ago
      1/2: Great points, thank you for educating me on this and renders my point largely moot, at least when compared to ICEs 3: I'm incredibly skeptical. We've heard this from every industry with enormous negative externalities. Clean coal and all that jazz. Green steel. Recyclable plastics. Non-carcinogenic coatings. Until we actually have tires that produce multiple times less break dust, EVs are still horrific compared to non-bus public transit from an environmental perspective.
    - olyjohn 2y ago
      This guy is cherry picking his stats, example here is the GV70 from Wikipedia: *1,820–1,985 kg (4,012–4,376 lb) (2.5T) *1,975–2,010 kg (4,354–4,431 lb) (3.5T) *1,860–2,010 kg (4,101–4,431 lb) (2.2D) *2,230–2,310 kg (4,916–5,093 lb) (EV) He compared it against the heaviest ICE car, which is a fucking diesel. It still weighs 750+lbs more than that. Sorry to say but that is a significant weight difference. For perspective, the GV70 is almost as heavy as a 4wd crew cab Chevrolet Silverado pickup. The difference between the GV70 EV and the Silverado is less than the difference between the diesel and EV GV70s.
maeil 2y ago
It's astonishing to see how Toyota completely threw away their big knowledge lead in EVs and now Hyundai has become the global leader in mainstream non-Chinese consumer EVs. Even if their solid-state plans turn out to be true it could be too late, other techs could have caught up, and even if neither, it might be easy to copy by others. If Hyundai's partnership with Waymo ends up successful they'll have a killer combination, though that remains to be seen.
senkora 2y ago
I’m still surprised that Hyundai and Kia have continued to have great sales after the “Kia Boys” car theft debacle. I expected that to really hurt them in a lasting way, because it showed that they were willing to cut costs excessively.

12 points by m463 2y ago

I wonder how much of that corresponds to Tesla losing sales.

They are doing super-cheap leases. It’s not surprising that people want to take advantage. But this kind of thing usually ends in disaster for the automaker.

tmellon2 2y ago
Not necessarily in this scenario - if net manufacturing and battery costs were to fall - given the IC engine requires so many parts. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-ev-boom-threatens-to-push-gasoline-demand-off-a-cliff https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-e...
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  > if net manufacturing and battery costs were to fall That makes it even worse. If costs fall, competitive pressure will force you to lower the price of your new vehicles, which has a knock-on effect of reducing the resale value of each EV you get back from the consumer from leases that are ending. Imagine a $50,000 vehicle. You write a lease that assumes that it will be worth $25,000 in 3 years. Instead of charging the customer $25,000 for the lease, you only charge them $15,000. When they return the vehicle, you sell it for $25,000 as planned. But the total amount of money you collected is $40,000 - a loss of $10,000. Now, what happens if net manufacturing and battery costs drop in those 3 years? Your new cars are on the lot for $40,000 and when the customer turns in their leased vehicle you can only find a buyer for it at $15,000. You've therefore collected $30,000 for your $50,000 car and have to eat a loss of $20,000. Cheap leases get sales on the books today, but come with guaranteed losses years down the road (and you hope the market doesn't tank in the meantime). It might work out well in the end, but rarely does.

tmellon2 2y ago

Every EV that is used to replace personal transport of individuals with long (necessary), regular commutes each day will help in alleviating global warming : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-ev-boom-threatens-to-push-gasoline-demand-off-a-cliff https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-28/china-s-e...

maeil 2y ago
And if the EV is heavier than their previous car (generally very likely anywhere other than maybe the US), will increase the biggest single source of microplastics (which also is proving to have significant climate effects) in tire dust.
- tmellon2 2y ago
  1) EVs are not significantly heavier https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-than-their-ice-equivalents/ https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-... 2) One must also factor in the vast surface fleet that moves Gas and crude oil around : https://www.americangeosciences.org/geoscience-currents/transportation-oil-gas-and-refined-products https://www.americangeosciences.org/geoscience-currents/tran... 3) Tyre manufacturers have taken notice and are working on this problem.
  - maeil 2y ago
    1/2: Great points, thank you for educating me on this and renders my point largely moot, at least when compared to ICEs 3: I'm incredibly skeptical. We've heard this from every industry with enormous negative externalities. Clean coal and all that jazz. Green steel. Recyclable plastics. Non-carcinogenic coatings. Until we actually have tires that produce multiple times less break dust, EVs are still horrific compared to non-bus public transit from an environmental perspective.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    This guy is cherry picking his stats, example here is the GV70 from Wikipedia: *1,820–1,985 kg (4,012–4,376 lb) (2.5T) *1,975–2,010 kg (4,354–4,431 lb) (3.5T) *1,860–2,010 kg (4,101–4,431 lb) (2.2D) *2,230–2,310 kg (4,916–5,093 lb) (EV) He compared it against the heaviest ICE car, which is a fucking diesel. It still weighs 750+lbs more than that. Sorry to say but that is a significant weight difference. For perspective, the GV70 is almost as heavy as a 4wd crew cab Chevrolet Silverado pickup. The difference between the GV70 EV and the Silverado is less than the difference between the diesel and EV GV70s.

maeil 2y ago

It's astonishing to see how Toyota completely threw away their big knowledge lead in EVs and now Hyundai has become the global leader in mainstream non-Chinese consumer EVs. Even if their solid-state plans turn out to be true it could be too late, other techs could have caught up, and even if neither, it might be easy to copy by others. If Hyundai's partnership with Waymo ends up successful they'll have a killer combination, though that remains to be seen.

senkora 2y ago

I’m still surprised that Hyundai and Kia have continued to have great sales after the “Kia Boys” car theft debacle. I expected that to really hurt them in a lasting way, because it showed that they were willing to cut costs excessively.