5 ms·

I know plenty of people making $250K/yr or more who are living paycheck to paycheck. At that point, it's not really the company that's the problem...

DonnyV 2y ago
Here come the "its an individual's problem not a systemic problem" anecdotes. But when you look at all the data....its a systemic problem.
- brink 2y ago
  They're not saying that it's not a systemic problem, they're just saying it's not a company problem. Housing being too expensive is not a company problem for example.
saagarjha 2y ago
Maybe you know too many people who make $250k/year.
- throwawayq3423 2y ago
  Live in one of the handful of world class cites, 250k goes fast.
  - jwagenet 2y ago
    Yes, of course, but that’s if you are eating out frequently, have a recent model year car payment, have a pretty loose leisure budget (or lack of), live in above average cost of housing, etc. Raising your spending to you means doesn’t make you living paycheck to paycheck. One can live in SF for less than 100k.
notJim 2y ago
The living paycheck to paycheck stat is meaningless. It generates headlines, because bad news wins, but if you dig in, even the surveys that ask about this reveal that a large percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck are very financially secure, both objectively, and according to their own assessment. I don't have time right now, but I'd encourage anyone reading this to go find the actual source for this stat and read their full report. Last time I looked, it was freely available. Many of those people living paycheck to paycheck have a budget where they're saving or investing a significant amount of their money, and accordingly, money feels tight. This is the financially sound way to avoid lifestyle creep, but it doesn't mean you're in a precarious position. Or alternatively, they're paying for really expensive, but optional things like private schooling and expensive cars or vacations. Obviously some people are struggling, but this paycheck-to-paycheck stat is not an accurate way to quantify that. It's best IMO to look at objective metrics like the poverty rate, or people's objective financial picture (available via surveys.)
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  > Many of those people living paycheck to paycheck have a budget where they're saving or investing a significant amount of their money I don't think that's the common understanding of what "living paycheck to paycheck" means.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    The most common one is saying that someone is paycheck to paycheck but they're also funding their 401(k) up to company match, etc. It's usually just the inverse of saying most people don't have ready cash savings laying around; because there's no need to when you have credit every which way all the time. Much better to look at the debt load on people and how that changes over time. Someone who makes $5k a month and spends $3k on debt service and lives off $2k is going to feel much different from someone who makes the same $5k, lives on $2k, and spends $3k on candles or whatever (since they can stop buying candles anytime but you can't easily stop paying down debt).
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      When I hear "living paycheck to paycheck" I think it means your recurring expenses (rent, utilities, food, etc.) consume all your income every month and you have nothing left to save. No savings. No investments. No 401K. If you don't get your next paycheck you can't pay the rent.
      - bpt3 2y ago
        That's what it's supposed to mean, but because so many people don't report it that way the resulting data is meaningless.
      - jvanderbot 2y ago
        What you think and what each individual reply to the survey indended are bound to be wildly different.
        2y ago
jakefromstatecs 2y ago
> I know plenty of people making $250K/yr or more who are living paycheck to paycheck. How?..
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Stupid spending. (Or at least "unrestrained spending".) These are not people I know, but some of what's in this article "rhymes with" things I see high-income, high-spending associates doing: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple-that-makes-500000-a-year-but-cant-save.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple... From that article: "As Dogen puts it, they’re effectively “scraping by,” in part because they’re still living “paycheck-to-paycheck,” despite their generous salaries." That's right: they're each making $250K/yr, and living paycheck-to-paycheck as they describe it.

DonnyV 2y ago

Here come the "its an individual's problem not a systemic problem" anecdotes. But when you look at all the data....its a systemic problem.

brink 2y ago
They're not saying that it's not a systemic problem, they're just saying it's not a company problem. Housing being too expensive is not a company problem for example.

saagarjha 2y ago

Maybe you know too many people who make $250k/year.

throwawayq3423 2y ago
Live in one of the handful of world class cites, 250k goes fast.
- jwagenet 2y ago
  Yes, of course, but that’s if you are eating out frequently, have a recent model year car payment, have a pretty loose leisure budget (or lack of), live in above average cost of housing, etc. Raising your spending to you means doesn’t make you living paycheck to paycheck. One can live in SF for less than 100k.

notJim 2y ago

The living paycheck to paycheck stat is meaningless. It generates headlines, because bad news wins, but if you dig in, even the surveys that ask about this reveal that a large percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck are very financially secure, both objectively, and according to their own assessment. I don't have time right now, but I'd encourage anyone reading this to go find the actual source for this stat and read their full report. Last time I looked, it was freely available. Many of those people living paycheck to paycheck have a budget where they're saving or investing a significant amount of their money, and accordingly, money feels tight. This is the financially sound way to avoid lifestyle creep, but it doesn't mean you're in a precarious position. Or alternatively, they're paying for really expensive, but optional things like private schooling and expensive cars or vacations. Obviously some people are struggling, but this paycheck-to-paycheck stat is not an accurate way to quantify that. It's best IMO to look at objective metrics like the poverty rate, or people's objective financial picture (available via surveys.)

SoftTalker 2y ago
> Many of those people living paycheck to paycheck have a budget where they're saving or investing a significant amount of their money I don't think that's the common understanding of what "living paycheck to paycheck" means.
- bombcar 2y ago
  The most common one is saying that someone is paycheck to paycheck but they're also funding their 401(k) up to company match, etc. It's usually just the inverse of saying most people don't have ready cash savings laying around; because there's no need to when you have credit every which way all the time. Much better to look at the debt load on people and how that changes over time. Someone who makes $5k a month and spends $3k on debt service and lives off $2k is going to feel much different from someone who makes the same $5k, lives on $2k, and spends $3k on candles or whatever (since they can stop buying candles anytime but you can't easily stop paying down debt).
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    When I hear "living paycheck to paycheck" I think it means your recurring expenses (rent, utilities, food, etc.) consume all your income every month and you have nothing left to save. No savings. No investments. No 401K. If you don't get your next paycheck you can't pay the rent.
    - bpt3 2y ago
      That's what it's supposed to mean, but because so many people don't report it that way the resulting data is meaningless.
    - jvanderbot 2y ago
      What you think and what each individual reply to the survey indended are bound to be wildly different.
      - 2y ago

jakefromstatecs 2y ago

> I know plenty of people making $250K/yr or more who are living paycheck to paycheck. How?..

sokoloff 2y ago
Stupid spending. (Or at least "unrestrained spending".) These are not people I know, but some of what's in this article "rhymes with" things I see high-income, high-spending associates doing: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple-that-makes-500000-a-year-but-cant-save.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/budget-breakdown-of-a-couple... From that article: "As Dogen puts it, they’re effectively “scraping by,” in part because they’re still living “paycheck-to-paycheck,” despite their generous salaries." That's right: they're each making $250K/yr, and living paycheck-to-paycheck as they describe it.