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What you read online can definitely sway your opinion, especially if you’ve never traveled to or lived in that country for an extended period of time. It can gi

What you read online can definitely sway your opinion, especially if you’ve never traveled to or lived in that country for an extended period of time. It can give you a misleading perspective. I’ve lived in both EU and US, and EU definitely has the better quality of life for the average person. I 100% agree. However if you are at all an ambitious youngster with huge dreams, the EU is where dreams go to die lol. EU living is what i’d call “coasting in life”. It’s a safe, sheltered life, the government is very functional and “takes care” of you which i’m sure is comforting for many. It’s not for everyone though. In other words, I would recommend the typical person moves to the EU if they have the opportunity. Their quality of life would improve and they would be happier. For anyone that’s very ambitious or very talented at something, your efforts will pay off 10x in the US, and you’ll have a better quality of life than your EU counterparts.

deleted 2y ago
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amrocha 2y ago
I’m not reading anything online, I literally lived in Canada for 12 years and saw first hand how awful the US is. You would have to pay me a lot to live there, which explains the astronomical wages for tech workers. And I disagree about your efforts paying off more in the US. In a couple areas like tech sure, but most people would be better off somewhere else.
- eitally 2y ago
  That doesn't explain the astronomical wages for tech workers at all. Tech workers are paid highly because their employers are generating huge revenues per employee and the cost of living in these coastal hubs is exceptional [even before the most recent tech boom]. Tech workers not in Seattle, Bay Area, LA/Irvine, Boston, NYC and DC/NoVA are not getting paid nearly the same as tech workers in those places. Even in Chicago, Miami, Houston, Austin, Denver, Boulder, Raleigh, Charlotte, Philly -- they're all 20% or more lower comp. And what I'm not sure most folks on the outside looking in realize is just how much better tech companies pay for tech roles than non-tech companies pay for the same roles (usually in "IT" organizations). A SWE with 5yr experience at Google might be making $325k/yr total comp, but a SWE with 5yr experience at a F500 manufacturing company might be making $100k (and possibly working on harder problems).
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    The Google engineer is probably working directly on a product (or at least in a job function that is paid as if their members are working on the high-margin part of the business). The F500 manufacturing SWE is treated as part of the costs (and probably as NRE or overhead rather than as part of the product or even part of COGS).
  - foldr 2y ago
    >Tech workers are paid highly because their employers are generating huge revenues per employee and the cost of living in these coastal hubs is exceptional These are factors common to all (e.g.) Google employees. But the folks cleaning the toilets aren't getting paid as much as the software engineers. So there must be a bit more to it than that. I'm not saying that the factors you listed aren't factors, but they aren't the whole story by any means.
  - amrocha 2y ago
    If salaries weren’t so high nobody would choose to work for Google in the US vs in other places.
- lurking_swe 2y ago
  it’s funny because most of the US has the perception that canada is a mess and a horrible place to live too. Awful job prospects, migrant problems, horrible weather, and a housing market that makes the US look cheap. Just to name a few. Not sure if that’s true at all, i’ve never been to canada! So take those opinions with a huge grain of salt lol. What’s my point? I guess that perceptions can be very different. Anyway since you left canada, I hope you found someplace where you are happier. :-)
  - throaway915 2y ago
    they're all true, and all (mostly) exaggerated, on both sides of the border
  - amrocha 2y ago
    The difference is that I’ve never met a Canadian who hasn’t been to the US at least once. The same can’t be said for US citizens, as evidenced by you. I lived in Connecticut for 6 months too for what it’s worth. Awful place. Canada is much better, but has its problem. These days I live in Tokyo and love it.
    - lurking_swe 2y ago
      i’ve lived in connecticut for 3 years. Can confirm it sucks! maybe i should actually visit canada one day, see it with my own eyes.
    - Mountain_Skies 2y ago
      Over half of Canadians live within 70 miles of the US border and up to 90% (methodologies vary) live with 100 miles of the border. The converse isn't even close to being true.
      - amrocha 2y ago
        This isn’t a pissing contest. The point is that Canadians understand the US far better than USians understand Canada.
anonzzzies 2y ago
Depends what quality of life means to you right? My parents were average income but I never had money stress; worst that happens is the state pays for them or me etc. I have many millions now because selling some businesses; my life is the same; high quality. So what do you mean? I can only read 'more cars' or something in your post.
- zamalek 2y ago
  > Depends what quality of life means to you right? I recently got laid off for the 2nd time in 4 years (probably better off than most, to be honest). I'm done with shooting for the moon. I am now strongly considering a "boring" job - the kind that keeps the basics of society running and has government contracts. I can bootstrap my own moonshots over the weekend (I'm probably going to make split keyboards with Rust firmware FWIW). So, yeah totally, it can even change for an individual pretty drastically.
- lurking_swe 2y ago
  your last comment made me chuckle because I actually hate driving. :-) I agree with you, quality of life is very personal! I’ll share what a quality life means to me. For context, I grew up middle class, my father was a city employee, and my mother was a stay at home mom for a number of years. • large emergency fund (zero stress about paying mortgage or losing job). • I don’t have to look at prices when buying groceries or eating out. • Time and money for 1-2 vacations per year. At least 1 international. My spouse and I love to visit new places. • I can work remotely outside the US for 4 weeks internationally per year. I typically stay with my dad’s side of the family (in europe) for 3 weeks each year, while working remotely. Great way to spend lots of family time and not burn vacation time. • No stress about medical care or costs. • Ability to start a family without money stress. • Good work life balance, no more than 40yrs on average. Minimum 3 weeks vacation per year. • Ability to retire earlier, to pursue hobbies, if i wish. • Easy access (45 min or less) to quality outdoor recreation on the weekends. Things like hiking, kayaking, etc. A lot of those are luxuries, but certainly feel like a quality life for me. Yes, I realize how lucky I am. MOST people in the US are not so fortunate. I’m just explaining what quality of life might mean to someone… It’s not about buying pointless junk for me.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

amrocha 2y ago

I’m not reading anything online, I literally lived in Canada for 12 years and saw first hand how awful the US is. You would have to pay me a lot to live there, which explains the astronomical wages for tech workers. And I disagree about your efforts paying off more in the US. In a couple areas like tech sure, but most people would be better off somewhere else.

eitally 2y ago
That doesn't explain the astronomical wages for tech workers at all. Tech workers are paid highly because their employers are generating huge revenues per employee and the cost of living in these coastal hubs is exceptional [even before the most recent tech boom]. Tech workers not in Seattle, Bay Area, LA/Irvine, Boston, NYC and DC/NoVA are not getting paid nearly the same as tech workers in those places. Even in Chicago, Miami, Houston, Austin, Denver, Boulder, Raleigh, Charlotte, Philly -- they're all 20% or more lower comp. And what I'm not sure most folks on the outside looking in realize is just how much better tech companies pay for tech roles than non-tech companies pay for the same roles (usually in "IT" organizations). A SWE with 5yr experience at Google might be making $325k/yr total comp, but a SWE with 5yr experience at a F500 manufacturing company might be making $100k (and possibly working on harder problems).
- sokoloff 2y ago
  The Google engineer is probably working directly on a product (or at least in a job function that is paid as if their members are working on the high-margin part of the business). The F500 manufacturing SWE is treated as part of the costs (and probably as NRE or overhead rather than as part of the product or even part of COGS).
- foldr 2y ago
  >Tech workers are paid highly because their employers are generating huge revenues per employee and the cost of living in these coastal hubs is exceptional These are factors common to all (e.g.) Google employees. But the folks cleaning the toilets aren't getting paid as much as the software engineers. So there must be a bit more to it than that. I'm not saying that the factors you listed aren't factors, but they aren't the whole story by any means.
- amrocha 2y ago
  If salaries weren’t so high nobody would choose to work for Google in the US vs in other places.
lurking_swe 2y ago
it’s funny because most of the US has the perception that canada is a mess and a horrible place to live too. Awful job prospects, migrant problems, horrible weather, and a housing market that makes the US look cheap. Just to name a few. Not sure if that’s true at all, i’ve never been to canada! So take those opinions with a huge grain of salt lol. What’s my point? I guess that perceptions can be very different. Anyway since you left canada, I hope you found someplace where you are happier. :-)
- throaway915 2y ago
  they're all true, and all (mostly) exaggerated, on both sides of the border
- amrocha 2y ago
  The difference is that I’ve never met a Canadian who hasn’t been to the US at least once. The same can’t be said for US citizens, as evidenced by you. I lived in Connecticut for 6 months too for what it’s worth. Awful place. Canada is much better, but has its problem. These days I live in Tokyo and love it.
  - lurking_swe 2y ago
    i’ve lived in connecticut for 3 years. Can confirm it sucks! maybe i should actually visit canada one day, see it with my own eyes.
  - Mountain_Skies 2y ago
    Over half of Canadians live within 70 miles of the US border and up to 90% (methodologies vary) live with 100 miles of the border. The converse isn't even close to being true.
    - amrocha 2y ago
      This isn’t a pissing contest. The point is that Canadians understand the US far better than USians understand Canada.

anonzzzies 2y ago

Depends what quality of life means to you right? My parents were average income but I never had money stress; worst that happens is the state pays for them or me etc. I have many millions now because selling some businesses; my life is the same; high quality. So what do you mean? I can only read 'more cars' or something in your post.

zamalek 2y ago
> Depends what quality of life means to you right? I recently got laid off for the 2nd time in 4 years (probably better off than most, to be honest). I'm done with shooting for the moon. I am now strongly considering a "boring" job - the kind that keeps the basics of society running and has government contracts. I can bootstrap my own moonshots over the weekend (I'm probably going to make split keyboards with Rust firmware FWIW). So, yeah totally, it can even change for an individual pretty drastically.
lurking_swe 2y ago
your last comment made me chuckle because I actually hate driving. :-) I agree with you, quality of life is very personal! I’ll share what a quality life means to me. For context, I grew up middle class, my father was a city employee, and my mother was a stay at home mom for a number of years. • large emergency fund (zero stress about paying mortgage or losing job). • I don’t have to look at prices when buying groceries or eating out. • Time and money for 1-2 vacations per year. At least 1 international. My spouse and I love to visit new places. • I can work remotely outside the US for 4 weeks internationally per year. I typically stay with my dad’s side of the family (in europe) for 3 weeks each year, while working remotely. Great way to spend lots of family time and not burn vacation time. • No stress about medical care or costs. • Ability to start a family without money stress. • Good work life balance, no more than 40yrs on average. Minimum 3 weeks vacation per year. • Ability to retire earlier, to pursue hobbies, if i wish. • Easy access (45 min or less) to quality outdoor recreation on the weekends. Things like hiking, kayaking, etc. A lot of those are luxuries, but certainly feel like a quality life for me. Yes, I realize how lucky I am. MOST people in the US are not so fortunate. I’m just explaining what quality of life might mean to someone… It’s not about buying pointless junk for me.