4 ms·

> Everything just works Keyboard wakeup doesn’t—it’s due to the same problem as TFA describes for the 16 except for the 13 the Framework folks have submitted (

> Everything just works Keyboard wakeup doesn’t—it’s due to the same problem as TFA describes for the 16 except for the 13 the Framework folks have submitted (the moral equivalent of) TFA’s fix to the kernel. Apparently firmware 3.06, currently in beta, is expected to finally solve the problem on the AMD 13. S3 is unsupported (thanks AMD), and s0ix battery drain is higher than I’d like (IIRC like half a week in suspend with 64GB RAM). Out of the box, the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth connectivity is also subpar, but that’s an issue common to the MediaTek cards AMD pushes on laptop manufacturers nowadays, not specific to Framework. (And it’s fixed by a $25 component swap.)

FrameworkFred 2y ago
I'll admit that I'm not well versed in the different shades of suspend...I had to look up S3 and it definitely eats more battery than I'd like when it's suspended. With that said, I've only ever had two laptops that would actually wake up after a suspend and one of those only did that after it was resurrected after a 5 year hiatus. So my expectations were low enough that I was thrilled that it worked at all. I look forward to the fix in the firmware (which seems to update via standard apt upgrade efforts...also pretty cool). I haven't hit any problems with wifi and bluetooth...both work well for me.
codedokode 2y ago
I didn't understand why the laptop was waking up by itself. Was the lid too close to the buttons and it was pressing it? > S3 is unsupported (thanks AMD) My AMD laptop (not a Framework) seems to have no issues with sleeping though (although I don't know what power state it is in).
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  > I didn't understand why the laptop was waking up by itself. The official line at the moment is that some kind of firmware bug led to something other than the keyboard signalling the same interrupt line. So at the moment keyboard wakeup needed to be disabled to get reliable sleep. We’ll see if the latest firmware update[1] works out (and how long it takes to come out of beta). > I don't know what power state [an unspecified AMD laptop] is [sleeping] in That’s the crux of the issue[2], though. It’s either suspend-to-RAM (S3; dump hardware state to RAM and power off most of the hardware including the CPU) or suspend-to-idle (S0ix or “Modern Standby”; try to put most of the external hardware in low-power states, downclock the CPU, and hope nothing wakes up). Apple did get their S0ix equivalent (“Power Nap”) right enough that most don’t complain; in PC-land, reports of laptops cooking themselves in bags due to inadvertent[3] wakeups from S0ix are everywhere. I cannot find the exact CPU generation cutoffs at the moment, but the problem is that the CPU manufacturers are responsible for a good part of firmware development, and they no longer offer support for S3 at all—the corresponding procedure may be removed from the ACPI bytecode completely, or they may leave it there but declare it buggy and unreliable (usually truthfully). The only exception I know of is Linux-certified ThinkPads, because apparently Lenovo has enough weight to throw around that they can get special treatment. [1] https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-7040-bios-3-06-release-beta/60732 https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-704... [2] https://blog.jeujeus.de/blog/hardware/laptops-will-not-sleep-anymore/ https://blog.jeujeus.de/blog/hardware/laptops-will-not-sleep... [3] Not clear how much of this is Windows looking for updates regardless of the user’s desire.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    Out of curiosuty, I looked through logs at my laptop after it wakes up and here is what is present there: > kernel: ACPI: PM: Waking up from system sleep state S3 > kernel: CPU1 is up > kernel: smpboot: Booting Node 0 Processor 1 APIC 0x1 > kernel: Enabling non-boot CPUs > kernel: ACPI: PM: Low-level resume complete So of course it might be not a "real" S3, but I didn't have a chance to test how long the laptop battery can last in suspended mode.
    - mananaysiempre 2y ago
      No, that is in fact what going out of real S3 looks like, SMP bringup and all. For comparison, here's going in and out of S0ix (aka suspend-to-idle aka "s2idle" even though it has nothing to do with ACPI S2) on my laptop (with messages from amdgpu, etc., snipped): PM: suspend entry (s2idle) Filesystems sync: 0.012 seconds Freezing user space processes Freezing user space processes completed (elapsed 0.003 seconds) OOM killer disabled. Freezing remaining freezable tasks Freezing remaining freezable tasks completed (elapsed 0.002 seconds) printk: Suspending console(s) (use no_console_suspend to debug) atkbd serio0: Disabling IRQ1 wakeup source to avoid platform firmware bug <-- this is the Framework workaround pcieport 0000:00:08.3: quirk: disabling D3cold for suspend ACPI: EC: interrupt blocked ACPI: EC: interrupt unblocked OOM killer enabled. Restarting tasks ... done. random: crng reseeded on system resumption PM: suspend exit

FrameworkFred 2y ago

I'll admit that I'm not well versed in the different shades of suspend...I had to look up S3 and it definitely eats more battery than I'd like when it's suspended. With that said, I've only ever had two laptops that would actually wake up after a suspend and one of those only did that after it was resurrected after a 5 year hiatus. So my expectations were low enough that I was thrilled that it worked at all. I look forward to the fix in the firmware (which seems to update via standard apt upgrade efforts...also pretty cool). I haven't hit any problems with wifi and bluetooth...both work well for me.

codedokode 2y ago

I didn't understand why the laptop was waking up by itself. Was the lid too close to the buttons and it was pressing it? > S3 is unsupported (thanks AMD) My AMD laptop (not a Framework) seems to have no issues with sleeping though (although I don't know what power state it is in).

mananaysiempre 2y ago
> I didn't understand why the laptop was waking up by itself. The official line at the moment is that some kind of firmware bug led to something other than the keyboard signalling the same interrupt line. So at the moment keyboard wakeup needed to be disabled to get reliable sleep. We’ll see if the latest firmware update[1] works out (and how long it takes to come out of beta). > I don't know what power state [an unspecified AMD laptop] is [sleeping] in That’s the crux of the issue[2], though. It’s either suspend-to-RAM (S3; dump hardware state to RAM and power off most of the hardware including the CPU) or suspend-to-idle (S0ix or “Modern Standby”; try to put most of the external hardware in low-power states, downclock the CPU, and hope nothing wakes up). Apple did get their S0ix equivalent (“Power Nap”) right enough that most don’t complain; in PC-land, reports of laptops cooking themselves in bags due to inadvertent[3] wakeups from S0ix are everywhere. I cannot find the exact CPU generation cutoffs at the moment, but the problem is that the CPU manufacturers are responsible for a good part of firmware development, and they no longer offer support for S3 at all—the corresponding procedure may be removed from the ACPI bytecode completely, or they may leave it there but declare it buggy and unreliable (usually truthfully). The only exception I know of is Linux-certified ThinkPads, because apparently Lenovo has enough weight to throw around that they can get special treatment. [1] https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-7040-bios-3-06-release-beta/60732 https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-704... [2] https://blog.jeujeus.de/blog/hardware/laptops-will-not-sleep-anymore/ https://blog.jeujeus.de/blog/hardware/laptops-will-not-sleep... [3] Not clear how much of this is Windows looking for updates regardless of the user’s desire.
- codedokode 2y ago
  Out of curiosuty, I looked through logs at my laptop after it wakes up and here is what is present there: > kernel: ACPI: PM: Waking up from system sleep state S3 > kernel: CPU1 is up > kernel: smpboot: Booting Node 0 Processor 1 APIC 0x1 > kernel: Enabling non-boot CPUs > kernel: ACPI: PM: Low-level resume complete So of course it might be not a "real" S3, but I didn't have a chance to test how long the laptop battery can last in suspended mode.
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    No, that is in fact what going out of real S3 looks like, SMP bringup and all. For comparison, here's going in and out of S0ix (aka suspend-to-idle aka "s2idle" even though it has nothing to do with ACPI S2) on my laptop (with messages from amdgpu, etc., snipped): PM: suspend entry (s2idle) Filesystems sync: 0.012 seconds Freezing user space processes Freezing user space processes completed (elapsed 0.003 seconds) OOM killer disabled. Freezing remaining freezable tasks Freezing remaining freezable tasks completed (elapsed 0.002 seconds) printk: Suspending console(s) (use no_console_suspend to debug) atkbd serio0: Disabling IRQ1 wakeup source to avoid platform firmware bug <-- this is the Framework workaround pcieport 0000:00:08.3: quirk: disabling D3cold for suspend ACPI: EC: interrupt blocked ACPI: EC: interrupt unblocked OOM killer enabled. Restarting tasks ... done. random: crng reseeded on system resumption PM: suspend exit