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"Grifter" is a terrible word choice for the "personality type" in the description. Grifting is always a form of aberrant behaviour -- manipulative, cruel, dece
by throw646577 2y ago
"Grifter" is a terrible word choice for the "personality type" in the description.
Grifting is always a form of aberrant behaviour -- manipulative, cruel, deceitful, larcenous. Unless you are Humpty Dumpty, I don't know why you would choose a word for a quadrant that requires you to clarify that you do not mean to associate its actual meaning with the behaviours in that quadrant.
"Politician" (albeit with a small p) is a much, much better word for the personality type in the description.
Politics is only sometimes a form of aberrant behaviour.
- syntheticnature 2y agoGiven the description in the article, I'd say Cynic/Idealist instead of Grifter/Believer.
- gchamonlive 2y agoOr maybe even loyalist/idealist to purge any hint of negativity from the first category
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoDoes it? Loyalty is for henchmen. You only need it if you have a habit of asking people to do something slimy.
- gchamonlive 2y agoCould be but > They respect the company mission as written, but what they really value is what the leaders of the company show they care about. > Grifters aren’t very good at changing the culture of their organizations. They tend to go with the current instead. To me loyalist fits this well, not because they are necessarily going to do dirty work, but because they are loyal to the rules that are in place.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoNo you're right, it's a better label. I just am too much of a believer/anarchist to see loyalty as any better than grift. A grifter does their own evil, a loyalist does someone else's. I'm not sure which is more repugnant but I'm sure that my view on this is quite biased. I guess that makes me the target audience re: > this article is really aimed at people who are trying to have a bit more empathy for the assholes they work with
- gchamonlive 2y agoThis discussion would benefit a lot from The Banality of Evil, but I'm definitely not the best one to introduce it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem But I think it would very much argue in favor of people being on average more like loyalists. Just regular Joes trying to get a promotion and causing untold damage in the process.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoI had heard the phrase, but didn't know where it came from. Based on the wiki, I think I'm inclined to agree with the author. Do you recommend it? I could use something a bit less abstract than my typical fare...
- gchamonlive 2y agoI didn't read the book, that's above my paygrade. But a good introduction would be the episode on Philosophize This about the author
- lazide 2y agoOr you have work that sometimes is unpleasant (but necessary!) and having people jump ship at the slightest provocation gets old.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoI do unpleasant work all the time, I do it because I believe it's necessary. The fact that my boss also believes it is necessary is convenient. This has lead to an average job length of about 3yr (max: 7), so I don't think it's leading me to be overly flighty. Every resignation has been a bit of a manifesto though, so it's not like everything is perfectly normal, but it works out well enough.
- dowager_dan99 2y agogo back to the very start; the perspective is supposed to be the assholes you identify in each category where you don't see yourself. By definition it should be negative, and this should feel uncomfortable because you don't want to view yourself in the same light. The fact there's so much debate implies they nailed the labels.
- gchamonlive 2y ago> the perspective is supposed to be the assholes you identify in each category where you don't see yourself There is literally a "Me" in the graph. This gives me a little Zizekian vibes, where it's intentionally trying to confuse and shock in order to shift your perspective without you even realising it. I like it. The relabeling is just another form of understanding by interacting.
- throw646577 2y agoI think Realist more than Cynic, maybe. Because the activities in that description are perhaps realistically transactional, not cynical. I dunno. The whole thing is wobbly really.
- indoordin0saur 2y agoI think this is great. I've certainly had companies where I believed in the mission and others where I was just doing the work to help along the project or advance my own career experience. But I wasn't ever there to deceive people or fraudulently misrepresent myself.
- mckn1ght 2y ago> I’m naming them this way because these are the names you’d give them when you’re complaining about your coworkers
- throw646577 2y agoAre they? Someone who actually does the work is not a grifter, by definition.
- mckn1ght 2y agoI think you'd have to work at it to be a successful grifter. If there's a sucker born every minute, then you really gotta be able to scale.
- throw646577 2y agoWork at grifting, yes -- but the description associated with that quadrant is someone who actually works for the goals of the organisation: this is the literal opposite of grifting. Like, the post says "You want a grifter leading a complicated engineering project". No, you really, really, really don't.
- wiseowise 2y ago> No, you really, really, really don't. You do. Believers are too inflexible and will kill the project eventually because of it. Coasters won’t work enough to deliver the project. Grinders will eventually burn out and devolve into coasters, or start divert the project into unrelated territory (focusing too much on optimization, testing, accessibility). Grifters are the only ones who can lead projects, because they understand where the wind blows.
- mckn1ght 2y agoYeah. And I'll just add, so often the success of a project is not in its technicals, but the smoke and mirrors that are used to sell it. Be that to upper management, clients, regulators...
- mattcantstop 2y agoI agree with this wholeheartedly. I fed ChatGPT the description and they said a name without such a negative connotation was "navigator." I think this is better. It also recommended "politician" as well. I think navigator is fitting. They let the structure of the system they find themselves in determine their path. The system navigates for them.
- jvanderbot 2y agoWater vs Rock, for my Tao enthusiasts. Combined you have beautiful functional waterways upon which to leisure or work.
- snowfarthing 2y agoIn this day and age, I would think "politician" would be worse than "grifter". (Well, maybe not just this day and age ... this is a rather timeless observation.)
- d0mine 2y agoPolitics in SE: Self > Team > Org (it fits grifter) The reverse fits believer: Self < Team < Org A<B means that person considers B’s interests to be more important than A’s (in the work context here).
- maxnevermind 2y agoI would use "Visibility chaser" instead of "Grifter". Visibility is the single most important thing during the promotion cycle thus it is the most important thing for such people. Go write a class and then pretend that you invented the wheel and promote yourself to everybody, never spent the time on anything that can't be "sold" to management even it if it useful for the team.