4 ms·

Dart - I see it mentioned (and perf looks impressive), but is it widely adopted? Also, would have loved to see LuaJIT (interpreted lang) & Crystal (static Ruby

Dart - I see it mentioned (and perf looks impressive), but is it widely adopted? Also, would have loved to see LuaJIT (interpreted lang) & Crystal (static Ruby like language) included just for comparison sake.

igouy 2y ago
fwiw https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/dartexe-dartjit.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
suby 2y ago
It looks like a more complete breakdown is here. Crystal ranks just below Dart at 0.5413 (Dart was 0.5295). Luajit was 0.8056. I'm surprised Luajit does worse than Dart. Actually I am surprised Dart is beating out languages like C# too. http://benjdd.com/languages2 http://benjdd.com/languages2
- igouy 2y ago
  Maybe that dozen lines of code isn't sufficient to characterize performance differences? Nearly 25 years ago, nested loops and fibs. https://web.archive.org/web/20010424150558/http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/nestedloop/ https://web.archive.org/web/20010424150558/http://www.bagley... https://web.archive.org/web/20010124092800/http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/fibo/ https://web.archive.org/web/20010124092800/http://www.bagley... It's been a long time since the benchmarks game showed those.
- saurik 2y ago
  Dart's VM was designed by the team (I think not just the one guy, but maybe I'm wrong on that and it really is just Lars Bak) that designed most of the truly notable VMs that have ever existed: Self, Smalltalk Strongtalk, Java Hotspot, and JavaScript V8. It also features an ahead-of-time compiler mode in addition to a world-class JIT and interpreter, allowing for hot reload during development. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programmer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programme... It was stuck with a bad rep for being the language that was never going to replace JavaScript in the browser, and then was merely a transpiler no one was going to use, before it found a new life as the language for Flutter, which has driven a lot of its syntax and semantics improvements since, with built-in VM support for extremely efficient object templating (used by the reactive UI framework).
- lern_too_spel 2y ago
  Runtime startup isn't amortized.
  - igouy 2y ago
    How do you know?
    - lern_too_spel 2y ago
      The methodology is documented in the link of the comment I responded to.
      - igouy 2y ago
        Perhaps you mean that "the methodology" does not include an explicit step intended to amortize runtime startup. Perhaps the tiny tiny programs none-the-less took enough time that startup was amortized.
- neonsunset 2y ago
  This nested loops microbenchmark only measures in-loop integer division optimizations on ARM64 - there are division fault handling differences which are ARM64 specific which introduce significant variance between compilers of comparable capability. On x86_64 I expect the numbers would have been much closer and within measurement error. The top half is within 0.5-0.59s - there really isn't much you can do inside such a loop, almost nothing happens there. As Isaac pointed out in a sibling comment - it's best to pick specific microbenchmarks, a selection of languages and implementations that interest you and dissect those - it will tell you much more.
- ModernMech 2y ago
  I wonder why C++ isn't in that list but a bunch of languages no one uses are.
Alifatisk 2y ago
Been using pure Dart since last year, it's a lovely language that has it's quirks. I like it. It's fast and flexible.
- contagiousflow 2y ago
  Have you used it for anything other than Flutter? I recently did a Flutter project and I'm interested in using dart more now.
  - Alifatisk 2y ago
    Yes, that's what I meant with pure Dart. I've created cli's with it and a little api-only server.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

igouy 2y ago

fwiw https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/dartexe-dartjit.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

suby 2y ago

It looks like a more complete breakdown is here. Crystal ranks just below Dart at 0.5413 (Dart was 0.5295). Luajit was 0.8056. I'm surprised Luajit does worse than Dart. Actually I am surprised Dart is beating out languages like C# too. http://benjdd.com/languages2 http://benjdd.com/languages2

igouy 2y ago
Maybe that dozen lines of code isn't sufficient to characterize performance differences? Nearly 25 years ago, nested loops and fibs. https://web.archive.org/web/20010424150558/http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/nestedloop/ https://web.archive.org/web/20010424150558/http://www.bagley... https://web.archive.org/web/20010124092800/http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/fibo/ https://web.archive.org/web/20010124092800/http://www.bagley... It's been a long time since the benchmarks game showed those.
saurik 2y ago
Dart's VM was designed by the team (I think not just the one guy, but maybe I'm wrong on that and it really is just Lars Bak) that designed most of the truly notable VMs that have ever existed: Self, Smalltalk Strongtalk, Java Hotspot, and JavaScript V8. It also features an ahead-of-time compiler mode in addition to a world-class JIT and interpreter, allowing for hot reload during development. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programmer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Bak_(computer_programme... It was stuck with a bad rep for being the language that was never going to replace JavaScript in the browser, and then was merely a transpiler no one was going to use, before it found a new life as the language for Flutter, which has driven a lot of its syntax and semantics improvements since, with built-in VM support for extremely efficient object templating (used by the reactive UI framework).
lern_too_spel 2y ago
Runtime startup isn't amortized.
- igouy 2y ago
  How do you know?
  - lern_too_spel 2y ago
    The methodology is documented in the link of the comment I responded to.
    - igouy 2y ago
      Perhaps you mean that "the methodology" does not include an explicit step intended to amortize runtime startup. Perhaps the tiny tiny programs none-the-less took enough time that startup was amortized.
neonsunset 2y ago
This nested loops microbenchmark only measures in-loop integer division optimizations on ARM64 - there are division fault handling differences which are ARM64 specific which introduce significant variance between compilers of comparable capability. On x86_64 I expect the numbers would have been much closer and within measurement error. The top half is within 0.5-0.59s - there really isn't much you can do inside such a loop, almost nothing happens there. As Isaac pointed out in a sibling comment - it's best to pick specific microbenchmarks, a selection of languages and implementations that interest you and dissect those - it will tell you much more.
ModernMech 2y ago
I wonder why C++ isn't in that list but a bunch of languages no one uses are.

Alifatisk 2y ago

Been using pure Dart since last year, it's a lovely language that has it's quirks. I like it. It's fast and flexible.

contagiousflow 2y ago
Have you used it for anything other than Flutter? I recently did a Flutter project and I'm interested in using dart more now.
- Alifatisk 2y ago
  Yes, that's what I meant with pure Dart. I've created cli's with it and a little api-only server.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]