4 ms·

Lol what? Neighbors and loose friends buy guns from each other all the time. In Michigan at least, you only even need a permit if it's a handgun -- rifles and

Lol what? Neighbors and loose friends buy guns from each other all the time. In Michigan at least, you only even need a permit if it's a handgun -- rifles and shotguns don't require an iota of state involvement and as long as you're reasonably sure the buyer isn't a prohibited person, there's no real liability either.

busterarm 2y ago
Only if you're idiots. Edit: Especially the kind that would post about it on the internet and snitch on themselves and attract undue attention from the ATF. But yeah, some very small percentage of people are stupid and/or criminal. 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Eumenes 2y ago
  > 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything Alot of states have classified pages where you can buy/sell firearms. Many states don't require background checks for private sales. People aren't paying a gun shop a FFL transfer/background check fee to hand over the gun to the buyer. Source: have seen many of these transactions at rod and gun clubs.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. actual estimates of private sales range from 10% (NRA) to 22% (NPSOF) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/
  - Clubber 2y ago
    >Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. This trope is so tired, but since you did it, tell me you don't keep up with gun regulatory news without telling me.. The ATF has been on a rogue rampage the last 4 years.
    - mikeyouse 2y ago
      Considering that these are legal sales between law-abiding adults, the ATF doesn't care at all. There's the perennial "they're taking all our guns!" discourse that serves to misinform everyone, and then there are basic facts that mostly pierce all the nonsense. https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png "Rogue rampage" indeed.. almost 10% higher than pre-covid Trump convictions and about the same level as we saw under GWB! Then again, the average person convicted in 2023 had >2 prior convictions and over 7 prior arrests so maybe these are actually just criminals? Wish everyone would decide if we should enforce laws or not. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-facts-and-figures-fiscal-year-2023 https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-fa...
      - Clubber 2y ago
        The ATF changed the rules on private sales. If you make a penny on the private sale, you need an FFL. https://www.gunowners.org/new-atf-rule-you-can-go-to-jail-for-selling-a-gun-at-your-local-store-with-a-background-check/ https://www.gunowners.org/new-atf-rule-you-can-go-to-jail-fo... https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12679 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12679 https://myjrpaper.com/node/7745 https://myjrpaper.com/node/7745 They killed this guy over it. https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raises-more-questions-of-excessive-force/ https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise... All this was legal a few years ago. ATF decided to change the rules. Also, they wanted to completely ban private sales, but a whistleblower blew the whistle and hopefully stopped them. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atf-whistleblowers-sound-alarm-biden-admin-proposal-effectively-bans-private-gun-sales-report https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atf-whistleblowers-sound-al... So there's all that.
        mikeyouse 2y ago
        I'm sorry you buy into all the misleading nonsense from the prepper gun lobby.. They did widen the definition of dealers, but it's still "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms." So casually selling guns to friends and family is fine and doesn't require a license or a background check unless your state requires it. > They killed this guy over it. https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise... He had bought over 150 guns in the past 3 years, signed forms for each of them that he was buying them for his own use, and then immediately turned around and sold them, several to undercover Feds. He'd post up at gun shows with a table full of guns and then sell them for cash without paperwork. 6 of the guns he sold were found at crime scenes.. the result of the raid was unfortunate but the dude was exactly who should be targeted by laws like this. Seriously, read the search affidavit if you think it was somehow inappropriate to target him: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vjer4Tr0SJhe6ZzkUDgkjaho4PHIg1KP/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vjer4Tr0SJhe6ZzkUDgkjaho4PH...

busterarm 2y ago

Only if you're idiots. Edit: Especially the kind that would post about it on the internet and snitch on themselves and attract undue attention from the ATF. But yeah, some very small percentage of people are stupid and/or criminal. 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Eumenes 2y ago
> 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything Alot of states have classified pages where you can buy/sell firearms. Many states don't require background checks for private sales. People aren't paying a gun shop a FFL transfer/background check fee to hand over the gun to the buyer. Source: have seen many of these transactions at rod and gun clubs.
mikeyouse 2y ago
Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. actual estimates of private sales range from 10% (NRA) to 22% (NPSOF) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/
- Clubber 2y ago
  >Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. This trope is so tired, but since you did it, tell me you don't keep up with gun regulatory news without telling me.. The ATF has been on a rogue rampage the last 4 years.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Considering that these are legal sales between law-abiding adults, the ATF doesn't care at all. There's the perennial "they're taking all our guns!" discourse that serves to misinform everyone, and then there are basic facts that mostly pierce all the nonsense. https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png "Rogue rampage" indeed.. almost 10% higher than pre-covid Trump convictions and about the same level as we saw under GWB! Then again, the average person convicted in 2023 had >2 prior convictions and over 7 prior arrests so maybe these are actually just criminals? Wish everyone would decide if we should enforce laws or not. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-facts-and-figures-fiscal-year-2023 https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-fa...
    - Clubber 2y ago
      The ATF changed the rules on private sales. If you make a penny on the private sale, you need an FFL. https://www.gunowners.org/new-atf-rule-you-can-go-to-jail-for-selling-a-gun-at-your-local-store-with-a-background-check/ https://www.gunowners.org/new-atf-rule-you-can-go-to-jail-fo... https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12679 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12679 https://myjrpaper.com/node/7745 https://myjrpaper.com/node/7745 They killed this guy over it. https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raises-more-questions-of-excessive-force/ https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise... All this was legal a few years ago. ATF decided to change the rules. Also, they wanted to completely ban private sales, but a whistleblower blew the whistle and hopefully stopped them. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atf-whistleblowers-sound-alarm-biden-admin-proposal-effectively-bans-private-gun-sales-report https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atf-whistleblowers-sound-al... So there's all that.
      - mikeyouse 2y ago
        I'm sorry you buy into all the misleading nonsense from the prepper gun lobby.. They did widen the definition of dealers, but it's still "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms." So casually selling guns to friends and family is fine and doesn't require a license or a background check unless your state requires it. > They killed this guy over it. https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise... He had bought over 150 guns in the past 3 years, signed forms for each of them that he was buying them for his own use, and then immediately turned around and sold them, several to undercover Feds. He'd post up at gun shows with a table full of guns and then sell them for cash without paperwork. 6 of the guns he sold were found at crime scenes.. the result of the raid was unfortunate but the dude was exactly who should be targeted by laws like this. Seriously, read the search affidavit if you think it was somehow inappropriate to target him: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vjer4Tr0SJhe6ZzkUDgkjaho4PHIg1KP/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vjer4Tr0SJhe6ZzkUDgkjaho4PH...