6 ms·

That's basically propaganda and half-admits it on the site. There are almost no situations where you will not be buying your firearm from an FFL and you will h

That's basically propaganda and half-admits it on the site. There are almost no situations where you will not be buying your firearm from an FFL and you will have to fill out a background check form and have a waiting period. The only private sales that happen are among criminals and within families. Regular people aren't going to risk the kind of charges that stem from misuse after a private sale. Certainly nobody with a legitimate business and livelihood to protect.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Florida resident, have bought one without filling out any paperwork. Concealed carry license was paperwork though. I guess we're haggling over the background check? Sure, I concede I had to give them a page of info with a copy of my FL driver's license. https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FPP/FAQs2.aspx https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FPP/FAQs2.aspx ("Florida does not require a permit to purchase a firearm nor is there a permit that exempts any person from the background check requirement.")
- behringer 2y ago
  Filling out the background check is still an application to own a gun, eg a "permit application". Just because the government wants to pretend that it isn't a permit (for second amendment reasons) doesn't mean it's not a permit.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    permit would imply that it would be plausible for one person out of 8+ billion to be denied which you know… you can call it permit but I would call it piece of paper
mikeyouse 2y ago
Lol what? Neighbors and loose friends buy guns from each other all the time. In Michigan at least, you only even need a permit if it's a handgun -- rifles and shotguns don't require an iota of state involvement and as long as you're reasonably sure the buyer isn't a prohibited person, there's no real liability either.
- busterarm 2y ago
  Only if you're idiots. Edit: Especially the kind that would post about it on the internet and snitch on themselves and attract undue attention from the ATF. But yeah, some very small percentage of people are stupid and/or criminal. 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Eumenes 2y ago
    > 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything Alot of states have classified pages where you can buy/sell firearms. Many states don't require background checks for private sales. People aren't paying a gun shop a FFL transfer/background check fee to hand over the gun to the buyer. Source: have seen many of these transactions at rod and gun clubs.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. actual estimates of private sales range from 10% (NRA) to 22% (NPSOF) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/
    - Clubber 2y ago
      >Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. This trope is so tired, but since you did it, tell me you don't keep up with gun regulatory news without telling me.. The ATF has been on a rogue rampage the last 4 years.
      - mikeyouse 2y ago
        Considering that these are legal sales between law-abiding adults, the ATF doesn't care at all. There's the perennial "they're taking all our guns!" discourse that serves to misinform everyone, and then there are basic facts that mostly pierce all the nonsense. https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png "Rogue rampage" indeed.. almost 10% higher than pre-covid Trump convictions and about the same level as we saw under GWB! Then again, the average person convicted in 2023 had >2 prior convictions and over 7 prior arrests so maybe these are actually just criminals? Wish everyone would decide if we should enforce laws or not. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-facts-and-figures-fiscal-year-2023 https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-fa...
HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
> That's basically propaganda and half-admits it on the site It is a simple page and I did not spot any inaccurate facts. > There are almost no situations where you will not be buying your firearm from an FFL and you will have to fill out a permit. I own 14 firearms and only 3 went through an FFL. Used firearms retain their value more than almost any other consumer good.
shadowgovt 2y ago
> The only private sales that happen are among criminals and within families This varies from state-to-state. Some states allow private sale of individual firearms with no background check. (... I wish I didn't have a reason to know this fact).
jjulius 2y ago
>There are almost no situations where you will not be buying your firearm from an FFL and you will have to fill out a background check form and have a waiting period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
- stufffer 2y ago
  The people you see with tables full of firearms for sale at gun shows are literally all FFL dealers.
bdangubic 2y ago
go to a gunshow and see what you need to walk home with guns from there…

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Florida resident, have bought one without filling out any paperwork. Concealed carry license was paperwork though. I guess we're haggling over the background check? Sure, I concede I had to give them a page of info with a copy of my FL driver's license. https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FPP/FAQs2.aspx https://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FPP/FAQs2.aspx ("Florida does not require a permit to purchase a firearm nor is there a permit that exempts any person from the background check requirement.")

behringer 2y ago
Filling out the background check is still an application to own a gun, eg a "permit application". Just because the government wants to pretend that it isn't a permit (for second amendment reasons) doesn't mean it's not a permit.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  permit would imply that it would be plausible for one person out of 8+ billion to be denied which you know… you can call it permit but I would call it piece of paper

mikeyouse 2y ago

Lol what? Neighbors and loose friends buy guns from each other all the time. In Michigan at least, you only even need a permit if it's a handgun -- rifles and shotguns don't require an iota of state involvement and as long as you're reasonably sure the buyer isn't a prohibited person, there's no real liability either.

busterarm 2y ago
Only if you're idiots. Edit: Especially the kind that would post about it on the internet and snitch on themselves and attract undue attention from the ATF. But yeah, some very small percentage of people are stupid and/or criminal. 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Eumenes 2y ago
  > 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything Alot of states have classified pages where you can buy/sell firearms. Many states don't require background checks for private sales. People aren't paying a gun shop a FFL transfer/background check fee to hand over the gun to the buyer. Source: have seen many of these transactions at rod and gun clubs.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. actual estimates of private sales range from 10% (NRA) to 22% (NPSOF) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28055050/
  - Clubber 2y ago
    >Why would the ATF give a shit? Tell me you aren't from a hunting state without telling me.. This trope is so tired, but since you did it, tell me you don't keep up with gun regulatory news without telling me.. The ATF has been on a rogue rampage the last 4 years.
    - mikeyouse 2y ago
      Considering that these are legal sales between law-abiding adults, the ATF doesn't care at all. There's the perennial "they're taking all our guns!" discourse that serves to misinform everyone, and then there are basic facts that mostly pierce all the nonsense. https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png "Rogue rampage" indeed.. almost 10% higher than pre-covid Trump convictions and about the same level as we saw under GWB! Then again, the average person convicted in 2023 had >2 prior convictions and over 7 prior arrests so maybe these are actually just criminals? Wish everyone would decide if we should enforce laws or not. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-facts-and-figures-fiscal-year-2023 https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-fa...

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago

> That's basically propaganda and half-admits it on the site It is a simple page and I did not spot any inaccurate facts. > There are almost no situations where you will not be buying your firearm from an FFL and you will have to fill out a permit. I own 14 firearms and only 3 went through an FFL. Used firearms retain their value more than almost any other consumer good.

shadowgovt 2y ago

> The only private sales that happen are among criminals and within families This varies from state-to-state. Some states allow private sale of individual firearms with no background check. (... I wish I didn't have a reason to know this fact).

jjulius 2y ago

>There are almost no situations where you will not be buying your firearm from an FFL and you will have to fill out a background check form and have a waiting period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

stufffer 2y ago
The people you see with tables full of firearms for sale at gun shows are literally all FFL dealers.

bdangubic 2y ago

go to a gunshow and see what you need to walk home with guns from there…