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Here's one from 2019: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-reading https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wr

Here's one from 2019: https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-how-schools-teach-reading https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/08/22/whats-wrong-ho... but no, it isn't new. There's a war between phonetic reading and 'whole word' reading. Whole Word gets you around the 'but phonetics are confusing and there are too many exceptions' problem except that it produces people who cannot comprehend a document.

DiggyJohnson 2y ago
Is this actually demonstrated though? Seems like whole word reading didn’t result in improved outcomes.
- graemep 2y ago
  I think it may depend on how reading is taught. I learned whole word reading, as did my children, and i think my siblings too but, we all learned to read at home. I think phonics may work better in a class room where you want to minimise the difference between slow and fast learners page, and kids do not get much individual attention. My kids learned to read from playing one to one games with flashcards and reading to/with a parent so whole word worked for us.
1659447091 2y ago
I hadn't heard of "whole word" reading or at least not to the point of reading about it, but from that article and the wiki page, my opinion is that it should be combined with phonics, they complement each other. There is no need to compete. Most of the whole word stragity is describing how I coped and masked my hidden dyslexia throughout school (only learned about it as an adult). The whole word stragity of using context clues got me through standardize testing with perfect reading scores. Multiple times throughout school no one knew what to do with me in reading/English because I scored so highly, read so slowly, and hallucinated words if forced to read out loud (usually a word that meant the same thing but is written absolute nowhere, its the bane of my existence). I can not for the life of me sound out words to figure out the spelling, life would make a lot more sense if we all simply moved to using the phonetic transcription[0] way of spelling. I mean really, "realise" wrong in the US, correct in UK--but it sounds like guise, so why should "guize" be wrong? Yeah it is confusing, especially for spelling. The 'whole word' way to memorize as many words as possible--I mean you have to do that anyway to know when to use things like "ize" or "ise" in American English. I'm guessing there are more examples and occurs in other languages as well(?). This one in particular caused unnecessary frustration for me in school. Sounding out words(trying to) helps a little but it's more of a backup tool for me. My written vocabulary is vastly superior to my verbal simply because I can not pronounce all of the words I know. From my understanding, part of dyslexia can include the difficulty separating individual sounds. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonetic_transcription https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonetic_transcription
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Strategy, but I know what you mean from context
  - 1659447091 2y ago
    Dyslexia strikes again. I appreciate you pointing that out (and I see what you did there); now I know to double check that word until it becomes consistent. And also spend more time to figure out what MacOS setting or feature got added with v15 to make typing worse for me. Before, it would simply be underlined in red--sometimes still is. Now, when my spelling is so far off it guesses something and changes it--I keep auto-correct off so not sure where it is. I would rather right click and choose an option or be so far off I have to look it up and get a little closer to getting right next time.
lelanthran 2y ago
> but no, it isn't new. There's a war between phonetic reading and 'whole word' reading. Older than many think. Search for and read "Why Johnny can't read", and then do the same for "Why Johnny still can't read". I have an almost-five child who is reading simple books with no pictures. Reading those two essays above, then buying "Teach your child to read in 100 days" and then simply working for 10m-20m each day since he was almost-three has resulted in a 5yo who reads as well as, or better than, many 8yo kids. Also, I moved off the DISTAR alphabet after about 6 months - the book is good, but use it as a good start, not as a complete teaching kit. Once you read those two essays you'll have a much better idea of why most children can't read and, most importantly, what to do about your kid at age 3.5yo - 4yo.

DiggyJohnson 2y ago

Is this actually demonstrated though? Seems like whole word reading didn’t result in improved outcomes.

graemep 2y ago
I think it may depend on how reading is taught. I learned whole word reading, as did my children, and i think my siblings too but, we all learned to read at home. I think phonics may work better in a class room where you want to minimise the difference between slow and fast learners page, and kids do not get much individual attention. My kids learned to read from playing one to one games with flashcards and reading to/with a parent so whole word worked for us.

1659447091 2y ago

I hadn't heard of "whole word" reading or at least not to the point of reading about it, but from that article and the wiki page, my opinion is that it should be combined with phonics, they complement each other. There is no need to compete. Most of the whole word stragity is describing how I coped and masked my hidden dyslexia throughout school (only learned about it as an adult). The whole word stragity of using context clues got me through standardize testing with perfect reading scores. Multiple times throughout school no one knew what to do with me in reading/English because I scored so highly, read so slowly, and hallucinated words if forced to read out loud (usually a word that meant the same thing but is written absolute nowhere, its the bane of my existence). I can not for the life of me sound out words to figure out the spelling, life would make a lot more sense if we all simply moved to using the phonetic transcription[0] way of spelling. I mean really, "realise" wrong in the US, correct in UK--but it sounds like guise, so why should "guize" be wrong? Yeah it is confusing, especially for spelling. The 'whole word' way to memorize as many words as possible--I mean you have to do that anyway to know when to use things like "ize" or "ise" in American English. I'm guessing there are more examples and occurs in other languages as well(?). This one in particular caused unnecessary frustration for me in school. Sounding out words(trying to) helps a little but it's more of a backup tool for me. My written vocabulary is vastly superior to my verbal simply because I can not pronounce all of the words I know. From my understanding, part of dyslexia can include the difficulty separating individual sounds. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonetic_transcription https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonetic_transcription

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
Strategy, but I know what you mean from context
- 1659447091 2y ago
  Dyslexia strikes again. I appreciate you pointing that out (and I see what you did there); now I know to double check that word until it becomes consistent. And also spend more time to figure out what MacOS setting or feature got added with v15 to make typing worse for me. Before, it would simply be underlined in red--sometimes still is. Now, when my spelling is so far off it guesses something and changes it--I keep auto-correct off so not sure where it is. I would rather right click and choose an option or be so far off I have to look it up and get a little closer to getting right next time.

lelanthran 2y ago

> but no, it isn't new. There's a war between phonetic reading and 'whole word' reading. Older than many think. Search for and read "Why Johnny can't read", and then do the same for "Why Johnny still can't read". I have an almost-five child who is reading simple books with no pictures. Reading those two essays above, then buying "Teach your child to read in 100 days" and then simply working for 10m-20m each day since he was almost-three has resulted in a 5yo who reads as well as, or better than, many 8yo kids. Also, I moved off the DISTAR alphabet after about 6 months - the book is good, but use it as a good start, not as a complete teaching kit. Once you read those two essays you'll have a much better idea of why most children can't read and, most importantly, what to do about your kid at age 3.5yo - 4yo.