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Ranking recent presidents by how disgraceful their pardons were: 1. Trump, 2. Clinton, 3. GHWB, 4. GWB, 5. Biden. Trump's you all know. Clinton

by nabla9 2y ago

Ranking recent presidents by how disgraceful their pardons were: 1. Trump, 2. Clinton, 3. GHWB, 4. GWB, 5. Biden. Trump's you all know. Clinton pardoned his half brother plus family friends, supporters and donors. Including Marc Rich who was hiding in Switzerland. Rich owed $48 million in taxes and was charged with 51 counts for tax fraud, was pardoned of tax evasion. Denise Eisenberg Rich, his former wife, was a big donor to the Clinton library and to Hillary Clinton's senate campaign. President Jimmy Carter called Rich pardon discraceful. GHWB pardoned large number of people in convicted in Iran-Contra Affair. GWB pardoned Scooter Libby, a former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.

JohnFen 2y ago
Yeah, for decades now I've thought that the pardon power of the president is harmful and frequently abused, and we should get rid of it entirely.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Well... it's the ultimate safety net against the court system being weaponized or just stupid. (Granted it's usually not used that way. But the protection may be important.)
- nabla9 2y ago
  I disagree. We all are eager to make binary yes/no decisions. Presidential pardon exists for a good reason and it exists in many countries. People elect a president, prescient uses pardon power. Political pardons are not always morally wrong. It has been and will be abused, but it also does good. System is not broken just because people in the system are broken. If we want to defended democracy, we must allow people to choose corrupt, disgusting people. They mirror the people.
- bediger4000 2y ago
  What should take it's place in the checks and balances the US government depends on?
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    I don't think that the pardon power is an effective check or balance. I think it's a holdover from forms of imperial government. That said, I don't think it's the most urgent thing that needs to be corrected. There are a few practices I think are even worse that I'd like to see attended to first. The electoral college, for example.

by nabla9 2y ago

JohnFen 2y ago

Yeah, for decades now I've thought that the pardon power of the president is harmful and frequently abused, and we should get rid of it entirely.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Well... it's the ultimate safety net against the court system being weaponized or just stupid. (Granted it's usually not used that way. But the protection may be important.)
nabla9 2y ago
I disagree. We all are eager to make binary yes/no decisions. Presidential pardon exists for a good reason and it exists in many countries. People elect a president, prescient uses pardon power. Political pardons are not always morally wrong. It has been and will be abused, but it also does good. System is not broken just because people in the system are broken. If we want to defended democracy, we must allow people to choose corrupt, disgusting people. They mirror the people.
bediger4000 2y ago
What should take it's place in the checks and balances the US government depends on?
- JohnFen 2y ago
  I don't think that the pardon power is an effective check or balance. I think it's a holdover from forms of imperial government. That said, I don't think it's the most urgent thing that needs to be corrected. There are a few practices I think are even worse that I'd like to see attended to first. The electoral college, for example.