4 ms·

That’s just because people have been so indoctrinated by capitalism that they only find joy if they’re being worked to the bone. They have forgotten the joy of

That’s just because people have been so indoctrinated by capitalism that they only find joy if they’re being worked to the bone. They have forgotten the joy of not doing anything productive.

Angostura 2y ago
Strongly disagree. There is an intrinsic pleasure for many people in feeling that they can make a contribution - that their skills, knowledge and ability is valuable and valued
- miningape 2y ago
  Exactly, that exact drive to feel helpful and needed is why dogs are trainable and men are depressed. It's why the old wolf who can't catch their own food anymore leaves the pack to die alone, cold, and hungry. That craving is a deeper more primalistic emotion than hunger or thirst for many people (and animals) - boiling it down to "muh capitalism" is just disingenuous.
- deadbabe 2y ago
  But their contributions are not valued. You can spend a year working on something cool and when you finally show it to the world the most you get is a couple upvotes on Hackernews and people using it for maybe 10-15 minutes and then never again. That’s the reality for many people.
daemin 2y ago
Why learn to paint or draw if generative ML can create a picture for you? Why practice writing if generative ML can create a poem or short story for you? In that regard you're best off just sitting down in front of a screen and consuming content generated by ML. And from the example in the original blog post the author had the generative ML do the fun stuff in solving the problem and all they did was drudge work cleaning it up and submitting it. Very productive from the company perspective but reminds me a lot of low thought factory processes.
- deadbabe 2y ago
  You didn’t answer your questions.
  - daemin 2y ago
    To me the joy of not doing anything productive means just sitting/laying on the couch consuming content in one form or another. I'm sure it can also mean just sitting and enjoying a coffee, which is fine but I don't find that necessarily enjoyable by itself. Making art, music, painting, are all creative and productive endevours, so when you're saying to be okay not being productive to me it means to be okay being a couch vegetable. We need the occasional rest but I don't want generative ML to do all the creative and rewarding things.
    - deadbabe 2y ago
      Consuming content is really just another capitalist activity, you’re producing views, impressions, you’re trading away attention in exchange for some entertainment. Instead, go outside and consume nature. Consume a sunset, not a TV show.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Many many people still play violin, piano, trumpet, guitar even though recordings (in various forms) have been around for more than 100 years.
atemerev 2y ago
There are many people who can afford to do nothing. They rarely do, and those who do, are not necessarily happy.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Those who do nothing tend to die early/young. Those who get a hobby of some sort tend to live a normal lifespan.
busterarm 2y ago
I know full well the joy of being unproductive because capitalism affords me the ability to do it. It's expensive and requires an amount of agency only afforded by a high income or outside wealth. Do you really think the authoritarian elites will let the unwashed masses with no income do whatever the hell they want? Can you really say that after COVID lockdowns demonstrated their true colors? None of the other capitalism-alternatives have historically afforded the kind of luxury you're suggesting either. Quite the opposite, in fact.

That’s just because people have been so indoctrinated by capitalism that they only find joy if they’re being worked to the bone. They have forgotten the joy of not doing anything productive.

Angostura 2y ago

Strongly disagree. There is an intrinsic pleasure for many people in feeling that they can make a contribution - that their skills, knowledge and ability is valuable and valued

miningape 2y ago
Exactly, that exact drive to feel helpful and needed is why dogs are trainable and men are depressed. It's why the old wolf who can't catch their own food anymore leaves the pack to die alone, cold, and hungry. That craving is a deeper more primalistic emotion than hunger or thirst for many people (and animals) - boiling it down to "muh capitalism" is just disingenuous.
deadbabe 2y ago
But their contributions are not valued. You can spend a year working on something cool and when you finally show it to the world the most you get is a couple upvotes on Hackernews and people using it for maybe 10-15 minutes and then never again. That’s the reality for many people.

daemin 2y ago

Why learn to paint or draw if generative ML can create a picture for you? Why practice writing if generative ML can create a poem or short story for you? In that regard you're best off just sitting down in front of a screen and consuming content generated by ML. And from the example in the original blog post the author had the generative ML do the fun stuff in solving the problem and all they did was drudge work cleaning it up and submitting it. Very productive from the company perspective but reminds me a lot of low thought factory processes.

deadbabe 2y ago
You didn’t answer your questions.
- daemin 2y ago
  To me the joy of not doing anything productive means just sitting/laying on the couch consuming content in one form or another. I'm sure it can also mean just sitting and enjoying a coffee, which is fine but I don't find that necessarily enjoyable by itself. Making art, music, painting, are all creative and productive endevours, so when you're saying to be okay not being productive to me it means to be okay being a couch vegetable. We need the occasional rest but I don't want generative ML to do all the creative and rewarding things.
  - deadbabe 2y ago
    Consuming content is really just another capitalist activity, you’re producing views, impressions, you’re trading away attention in exchange for some entertainment. Instead, go outside and consume nature. Consume a sunset, not a TV show.
bluGill 2y ago
Many many people still play violin, piano, trumpet, guitar even though recordings (in various forms) have been around for more than 100 years.

atemerev 2y ago

There are many people who can afford to do nothing. They rarely do, and those who do, are not necessarily happy.

bluGill 2y ago
Those who do nothing tend to die early/young. Those who get a hobby of some sort tend to live a normal lifespan.

busterarm 2y ago

I know full well the joy of being unproductive because capitalism affords me the ability to do it. It's expensive and requires an amount of agency only afforded by a high income or outside wealth. Do you really think the authoritarian elites will let the unwashed masses with no income do whatever the hell they want? Can you really say that after COVID lockdowns demonstrated their true colors? None of the other capitalism-alternatives have historically afforded the kind of luxury you're suggesting either. Quite the opposite, in fact.