5 ms·

Hahaha, what a lovely story! Really shows what happens when we engage as _people_, not _opportunities_.

ghaff 2y ago
This is a lot of the misunderstanding around "networking" you see in discussions. A lot of tech people see it as an unwelcome task/burden. Whereas, it should be generally viewed as a pleasurable opportunity to just get to know people who may (or may not) be useful at some point in the future.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- tejaskumar_ 2y ago
  My theory is that that term has this reputation because it is somewhat dehumanized: you _talk_ to people, you _network_ with opportunities.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  I think this happens because networking is always proposed as a way out of a bad career situation. Someone complains online about lack of opportunities then commenters come along to parrot networking as a solution. It sounds like a task you do for career gain. I have another theory that this creates a lot of rebound anger at the idea of networking. When I was doing mentoring (external to my company, people I didn't work with) I spent a depressing amount of time convincing young engineers that it was a bad idea to burn bridges as they left a company. Way too many people are enamored with the idea of ghosting their job or telling off their coworkers on the way out the door. It takes some convincing to get them to realize that leaving a bad impression on an entire office of people is the fastest way to poison their potential network. Nobody will want to refer you for future jobs if you're a jerk in your final days.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  I'm not used to putting effort into friendships, so it does sound like an unwelcome task. And it sounds phony, since I have never put effort before. If I have to put effort then am I not faking it?
  - tejaskumar_ 2y ago
    I'm not sure I understand this: do you mean you don't put in effort, or you do but the effort doesn't _feel_ like work?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    I'm "on the spectrum," so human relationships are a bit foreign to me. I'd make a great hermit. Pretty much every relationship I have "doesn't come natural." I need to put conscious effort into every one. I have also been involved in an organization, for most of my adult life, that has been instrumental, in helping to force me to have relationships with others, and it has taught me to be a good friend, and has given me good friends. I'm not really into "transactional" relationships. In many cases, the extent of our relationship is only where we need to work with each other. I don't need to be their buddy, but, in the context of our work, I have found that it helps me to develop a true interest in the other person. In my experience, I have realized that I'm actually a "people person." I really like people, and have found great utility, in ignoring my prejudices, and actually finding out a lot about the others in my life.
    - zafka 2y ago
      I really identify with your last sentence! Well actually your whole comment.
    - Dracophoenix 2y ago
      > Pretty much every relationship I have "doesn't come natural." I need to put conscious effort into every one. In what way exactly?
      - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Hard to explain. I don't "get" people, naturally. I don't feel the "proper" emotions, for situations, I have a fairly self-sufficient internal world, that doesn't really "need" other people. It's made me a good coder, but has made my relationships challenging. It's really a long story, and one that others have told, far better than I can.
- digging 2y ago
  I think the misunderstanding, in fact, is in reverse, demonstrated by the above comment. The networking required for career growth is, for many people, never going to pleasurable. My social circles don't have much overlap with, for example, startup founders. Developing personal relationships in my network is not likely to ever benefit my career growth. When people give the advice to "network" to enable my career growth, the people who would be most helpful tend not to have much in common with me, and building relationships with them often means not being true to myself, or even hiding myself. It isn't enough to simply build relationships or even be good at building relationships. Mostly, one needs to buy goodwill from those people who actually have power to help you.
  - tuna74 2y ago
    This was a really insightful comment!
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > When people give the advice to "network" to enable my career growth, the people who would be most helpful tend not to have much in common with me, and building relationships with them often means not being true to myself, or even hiding myself. Then it's best to recognise this early and decide if you want to be true to yourself or if you want to succeed[1]. [1] Depending on your definition of "success", plodding along for 40 years as an IC, contributing your skills to whichever employer and eventually retiring is, for many, "Success" with a capital "S". The people giving the networking advice are using a different definition, which is usually "rising in your career until you are making an impact far larger than an IC could". Not networking with the other rising stars gives you a very low chance of attaining that second definition of success.
    - digging 2y ago
      Hm, I mostly agree, but I think that's a bit tangential. It's not like people really get to make that choice and still have a good chance at success. In order to meet any definition of success[1], you need to get hired. And also, if you're in a job that's making you miserable, you once again need to get hired (somewhere else). Networking is the solution to that problem. If you're not someone who can enjoy and/or succeed at networking, your career is at risk. There's not much you can do about that except take a different path. [1] excluding either "leave the field and succeed somewhere else" or "start your own company"[2] [2] although starting one's own company without a robust network would probably also be a pretty difficult path

This is a lot of the misunderstanding around "networking" you see in discussions. A lot of tech people see it as an unwelcome task/burden. Whereas, it should be generally viewed as a pleasurable opportunity to just get to know people who may (or may not) be useful at some point in the future.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tejaskumar_ 2y ago
My theory is that that term has this reputation because it is somewhat dehumanized: you _talk_ to people, you _network_ with opportunities.
Aurornis 2y ago
I think this happens because networking is always proposed as a way out of a bad career situation. Someone complains online about lack of opportunities then commenters come along to parrot networking as a solution. It sounds like a task you do for career gain. I have another theory that this creates a lot of rebound anger at the idea of networking. When I was doing mentoring (external to my company, people I didn't work with) I spent a depressing amount of time convincing young engineers that it was a bad idea to burn bridges as they left a company. Way too many people are enamored with the idea of ghosting their job or telling off their coworkers on the way out the door. It takes some convincing to get them to realize that leaving a bad impression on an entire office of people is the fastest way to poison their potential network. Nobody will want to refer you for future jobs if you're a jerk in your final days.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
I'm not used to putting effort into friendships, so it does sound like an unwelcome task. And it sounds phony, since I have never put effort before. If I have to put effort then am I not faking it?
- tejaskumar_ 2y ago
  I'm not sure I understand this: do you mean you don't put in effort, or you do but the effort doesn't _feel_ like work?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I'm "on the spectrum," so human relationships are a bit foreign to me. I'd make a great hermit. Pretty much every relationship I have "doesn't come natural." I need to put conscious effort into every one. I have also been involved in an organization, for most of my adult life, that has been instrumental, in helping to force me to have relationships with others, and it has taught me to be a good friend, and has given me good friends. I'm not really into "transactional" relationships. In many cases, the extent of our relationship is only where we need to work with each other. I don't need to be their buddy, but, in the context of our work, I have found that it helps me to develop a true interest in the other person. In my experience, I have realized that I'm actually a "people person." I really like people, and have found great utility, in ignoring my prejudices, and actually finding out a lot about the others in my life.
  - zafka 2y ago
    I really identify with your last sentence! Well actually your whole comment.
  - Dracophoenix 2y ago
    > Pretty much every relationship I have "doesn't come natural." I need to put conscious effort into every one. In what way exactly?
    - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      Hard to explain. I don't "get" people, naturally. I don't feel the "proper" emotions, for situations, I have a fairly self-sufficient internal world, that doesn't really "need" other people. It's made me a good coder, but has made my relationships challenging. It's really a long story, and one that others have told, far better than I can.
digging 2y ago
I think the misunderstanding, in fact, is in reverse, demonstrated by the above comment. The networking required for career growth is, for many people, never going to pleasurable. My social circles don't have much overlap with, for example, startup founders. Developing personal relationships in my network is not likely to ever benefit my career growth. When people give the advice to "network" to enable my career growth, the people who would be most helpful tend not to have much in common with me, and building relationships with them often means not being true to myself, or even hiding myself. It isn't enough to simply build relationships or even be good at building relationships. Mostly, one needs to buy goodwill from those people who actually have power to help you.
- tuna74 2y ago
  This was a really insightful comment!
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > When people give the advice to "network" to enable my career growth, the people who would be most helpful tend not to have much in common with me, and building relationships with them often means not being true to myself, or even hiding myself. Then it's best to recognise this early and decide if you want to be true to yourself or if you want to succeed[1]. [1] Depending on your definition of "success", plodding along for 40 years as an IC, contributing your skills to whichever employer and eventually retiring is, for many, "Success" with a capital "S". The people giving the networking advice are using a different definition, which is usually "rising in your career until you are making an impact far larger than an IC could". Not networking with the other rising stars gives you a very low chance of attaining that second definition of success.
  - digging 2y ago
    Hm, I mostly agree, but I think that's a bit tangential. It's not like people really get to make that choice and still have a good chance at success. In order to meet any definition of success[1], you need to get hired. And also, if you're in a job that's making you miserable, you once again need to get hired (somewhere else). Networking is the solution to that problem. If you're not someone who can enjoy and/or succeed at networking, your career is at risk. There's not much you can do about that except take a different path. [1] excluding either "leave the field and succeed somewhere else" or "start your own company"[2] [2] although starting one's own company without a robust network would probably also be a pretty difficult path