5 ms·

Relationships are like a garden, they require continual, repeated effort to maintain. It doesn’t need to be an onerous amount of effort, but reaching out to pe

by lovich 2y ago

Relationships are like a garden, they require continual, repeated effort to maintain. It doesn’t need to be an onerous amount of effort, but reaching out to people to shoot the shit once even a year is often enough to maintain the relationship for professional networks at least. In software we have an unfortunate amount of people who don’t value social connections at all so we end up with a large tranche of people who can’t get past the “but why would I talk to them without a specific reason?” argument and then lament why all of their relationships end up transactional, or even better lament why no one will help them specifically because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value

tejaskumar_ 2y ago
Love this. Thank you for posting it!
eleveriven 2y ago
Relationships really are like a garden—if you don’t tend to them, they wither
impendia 2y ago
I think this is tricky. I'm someone who very highly values social connections, but finds it a little bit awkward to just "shoot the shit". I really enjoy interacting with people based on shared experiences, of whatever type -- but as you say, many people really enjoy interactions which are lower-key. You're not wrong, but interacting with others on their terms rather than yours can be a bit challenging at times, and easy to get wrong.
- tejaskumar_ 2y ago
  The cool thing is though that the real ones will have grace when either side gets it wrong, and the others won't.
the_snooze 2y ago
>In software we have an unfortunate amount of people who don’t value social connections at all so we end up with a large tranche of people who can’t get past the “but why would I talk to them without a specific reason?” argument and then lament why all of their relationships end up transactional, or even better lament why no one will help them specifically because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value Yup, you get a lot of people complaining about the pointlessness of small talk, but the reality is that small talk is social glue. People want to work with people they like, and you only get that by having some level of casual ease with one another. Being 100% business all the time is the opposite of casual ease.
- tejaskumar_ 2y ago
  +100 to this.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Post a longtime job out of grad school via on-campus interview (which is a bit of an irrelevant story itself), every other of my (few) jobs were through a professional network. Nothing formal, but people I ran into and maintained some connection with. I know there are a lot of people who (at least until recently) are they just ping a recruiter and get offers dropped in their lap. Or who are deeply resentful that it seems like "who you know" is the modus operandi for some. But without being anything like deliberate or cynical about the whole thing, it worked for me.
- lukan 2y ago
  "Yup, you get a lot of people complaining about the pointlessness of small talk, but the reality is that small talk is social glue." Only with some people. Trying to do smalltalk with me, will not make me your friend. I simply hate smalltalk. (Talking unimportant things for the sake of talking) But there are a million of other interesting non buisness things I am willing to talk about at length. I also like to joke around and be silly. But that requires a connection, you won't get with me while talking about the weather. And I know many people are like me, most just adopted to "like" smalltalk, as they think this is the way it has to be.
Agentus 2y ago
yeah i switched from business to software engineering, and it felt like an sysphean task to develop and keep relationships up in this new hemisphere. thought it was just me but didnt really have that issue with business people. in software it feels like the relationship halflife is accelerated. wonder how to get around that issue with people you literally have to strong arm the social stuff for them. i know doing computer gaming socials and having mutually overlapping projects can help be temporary glue but beyond that, trying to muster things up continues to be a struggle at least with a large portion of the software community. whats the secret to effortless networking and convincing introverts to so social stuff that they are repelled to doing.
- tejaskumar_ 2y ago
  I don't know, this sounds a bit like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Why not go find extroverts instead?
beryilma 2y ago
> because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value Why is a transactional relationship considered bad? And why would one consider a transactional relationship as something not offering value? I don't like small talk, but if I like the person I would try to help them anyway with their transactional request, with the expectation that I might have a similar transactional request at some point in the future. If the relationship is equally transactional in both directions, I don't see a problem with that.
- impendia 2y ago
  I am an academic mathematician, and one thing I love about our culture is that transactional relationships are considered perfectly okay. I can invite a colleague at another university, whom I might consider an old friend even though I haven't spoken to them in ages -- to come give a talk in my department. Very often they'll agree to come; we'll roll out the red carpet for them, and they and I will have a wonderful time. That said, this is far from universal in academia, and many academics do enjoy small talk and prefer to keep in touch regularly. I don't think any sort of relationship can be called "bad" or "good" in the abstract -- but a lot of people consider transactional relationships "bad" in the sense that they don't like them. And, if you want to build relationships with people, often you have to do it on their terms, or at least try to meet them halfway.
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    > I can invite a colleague at another university, whom I might consider an old friend even though I haven't spoken to them in ages -- to come give a talk in my department. Very often they'll agree to come; we'll roll out the red carpet for them, and they and I will have a wonderful time. You're giving the person an opportunity in this case. You're also rolling out the red carpet to make it good for them. Usually when people talk about transactional relationships, it means they only call on you when they need something from you. For example, calling someone up every 5 years when you need a referral or you want them to solve a problem for you.
  - lovich 2y ago

by lovich 2y ago

tejaskumar_ 2y ago

Love this. Thank you for posting it!

eleveriven 2y ago

Relationships really are like a garden—if you don’t tend to them, they wither

impendia 2y ago

I think this is tricky. I'm someone who very highly values social connections, but finds it a little bit awkward to just "shoot the shit". I really enjoy interacting with people based on shared experiences, of whatever type -- but as you say, many people really enjoy interactions which are lower-key. You're not wrong, but interacting with others on their terms rather than yours can be a bit challenging at times, and easy to get wrong.

tejaskumar_ 2y ago
The cool thing is though that the real ones will have grace when either side gets it wrong, and the others won't.

the_snooze 2y ago

>In software we have an unfortunate amount of people who don’t value social connections at all so we end up with a large tranche of people who can’t get past the “but why would I talk to them without a specific reason?” argument and then lament why all of their relationships end up transactional, or even better lament why no one will help them specifically because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value Yup, you get a lot of people complaining about the pointlessness of small talk, but the reality is that small talk is social glue. People want to work with people they like, and you only get that by having some level of casual ease with one another. Being 100% business all the time is the opposite of casual ease.

tejaskumar_ 2y ago
+100 to this.
ghaff 2y ago
Post a longtime job out of grad school via on-campus interview (which is a bit of an irrelevant story itself), every other of my (few) jobs were through a professional network. Nothing formal, but people I ran into and maintained some connection with. I know there are a lot of people who (at least until recently) are they just ping a recruiter and get offers dropped in their lap. Or who are deeply resentful that it seems like "who you know" is the modus operandi for some. But without being anything like deliberate or cynical about the whole thing, it worked for me.
lukan 2y ago
"Yup, you get a lot of people complaining about the pointlessness of small talk, but the reality is that small talk is social glue." Only with some people. Trying to do smalltalk with me, will not make me your friend. I simply hate smalltalk. (Talking unimportant things for the sake of talking) But there are a million of other interesting non buisness things I am willing to talk about at length. I also like to joke around and be silly. But that requires a connection, you won't get with me while talking about the weather. And I know many people are like me, most just adopted to "like" smalltalk, as they think this is the way it has to be.

Agentus 2y ago

yeah i switched from business to software engineering, and it felt like an sysphean task to develop and keep relationships up in this new hemisphere. thought it was just me but didnt really have that issue with business people. in software it feels like the relationship halflife is accelerated. wonder how to get around that issue with people you literally have to strong arm the social stuff for them. i know doing computer gaming socials and having mutually overlapping projects can help be temporary glue but beyond that, trying to muster things up continues to be a struggle at least with a large portion of the software community. whats the secret to effortless networking and convincing introverts to so social stuff that they are repelled to doing.

tejaskumar_ 2y ago
I don't know, this sounds a bit like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Why not go find extroverts instead?

beryilma 2y ago

> because all their relationships are transactional and they aren’t offering anything of value Why is a transactional relationship considered bad? And why would one consider a transactional relationship as something not offering value? I don't like small talk, but if I like the person I would try to help them anyway with their transactional request, with the expectation that I might have a similar transactional request at some point in the future. If the relationship is equally transactional in both directions, I don't see a problem with that.

impendia 2y ago
I am an academic mathematician, and one thing I love about our culture is that transactional relationships are considered perfectly okay. I can invite a colleague at another university, whom I might consider an old friend even though I haven't spoken to them in ages -- to come give a talk in my department. Very often they'll agree to come; we'll roll out the red carpet for them, and they and I will have a wonderful time. That said, this is far from universal in academia, and many academics do enjoy small talk and prefer to keep in touch regularly. I don't think any sort of relationship can be called "bad" or "good" in the abstract -- but a lot of people consider transactional relationships "bad" in the sense that they don't like them. And, if you want to build relationships with people, often you have to do it on their terms, or at least try to meet them halfway.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  > I can invite a colleague at another university, whom I might consider an old friend even though I haven't spoken to them in ages -- to come give a talk in my department. Very often they'll agree to come; we'll roll out the red carpet for them, and they and I will have a wonderful time. You're giving the person an opportunity in this case. You're also rolling out the red carpet to make it good for them. Usually when people talk about transactional relationships, it means they only call on you when they need something from you. For example, calling someone up every 5 years when you need a referral or you want them to solve a problem for you.
- lovich 2y ago