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Germany also has the most cyclist deaths of any country in the EU (~450/year), twice as many as the next country. The UK has one quarter the deaths despite hav

Germany also has the most cyclist deaths of any country in the EU (~450/year), twice as many as the next country. The UK has one quarter the deaths despite having ~3/4 of the population of Germany...

Cumpiler69 2y ago
Such statistics without the full context are meaningless. How many people per capita cycle in the UK vs DE. It's expected that if a lot more people cycle, you're gonna have more cycling deaths than in countries where fewer people cycle. If nobody would cycle you'd have zero cycling deaths, hooray problem solved, you successfully gamed the metrics, if wining arbitrary metrics is the goal.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  I mean, the numbers are the numbers. Sounds like the point you wanted to make, accidentally, is that cycling has a linear growth rate of death if more of the population cycles. Was that your goal?
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >I mean, the numbers are the numbers. Random numbers alone mean nothing if they're meaningless and out of context. More people are killed every year by cows than by sharks. Does that make cows more dangerous than sharks or just that people are more likely to be around cows more often than around sharks? If Germany has a higher population than UK, and also a higher percentage of people of that population cycle, then yeah you're gonna have more dead cyclists. D'uh! Show me deaths per capita and cycling rates per capita, then we can talk about drawing a conclusion.
- supermatt 2y ago
  In terms of urban distance travelled: DE 5.5%: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Travel_distance_per_person_per_day_by_main_travel_mode_for_urban_mobility_on_all_days_(%25)_v3.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... UK 1.7%: https://www.cyclinguk.org/statistics https://www.cyclinguk.org/statistics
jeroenhd 2y ago
Blinking lights are also banned in the Netherlands, which does a lot better in the statistics. Even then, the statistics are kind of useless; here bike deaths are mostly caused by old people on (electric) bikes falling over or getting into minor accidents, nothing to do with lights. The statistics are skewed in ways that cannot be compensated for easily, as on average UK cyclists are younger than Dutch cyclists and therefore less likely to die or get severely hurt in a traffic incident. Great Britain has half the bike usage of Germany. Germany has 36 million bikers (43% of 84 million), Great Brittain about 12 million (19% of 68 million), so the stats line up more than you'd think at a first glance. The difference between Germany and Great Brittain becomes laugably obvious when you look at the statistics for how many people use bikes as a primary transport method (6% GB vs 21% DE). That said, biking outside of large cities in Germany is kind of terrible, so I'm not at all surprised about how deadly cycling in Germany, though that may just be my spoilt Dutch take on things. Edit: my source for these statistics: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-05/Global%20Advisor-Cycling%20Across%20the%20World-2022%20Report.pdf https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...
kleiba 2y ago
Correlation is not causation.

Germany also has the most cyclist deaths of any country in the EU (~450/year), twice as many as the next country. The UK has one quarter the deaths despite having ~3/4 of the population of Germany...

Cumpiler69 2y ago

Such statistics without the full context are meaningless. How many people per capita cycle in the UK vs DE. It's expected that if a lot more people cycle, you're gonna have more cycling deaths than in countries where fewer people cycle. If nobody would cycle you'd have zero cycling deaths, hooray problem solved, you successfully gamed the metrics, if wining arbitrary metrics is the goal.

dgfitz 2y ago
I mean, the numbers are the numbers. Sounds like the point you wanted to make, accidentally, is that cycling has a linear growth rate of death if more of the population cycles. Was that your goal?
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >I mean, the numbers are the numbers. Random numbers alone mean nothing if they're meaningless and out of context. More people are killed every year by cows than by sharks. Does that make cows more dangerous than sharks or just that people are more likely to be around cows more often than around sharks? If Germany has a higher population than UK, and also a higher percentage of people of that population cycle, then yeah you're gonna have more dead cyclists. D'uh! Show me deaths per capita and cycling rates per capita, then we can talk about drawing a conclusion.
supermatt 2y ago
In terms of urban distance travelled: DE 5.5%: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Travel_distance_per_person_per_day_by_main_travel_mode_for_urban_mobility_on_all_days_(%25)_v3.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... UK 1.7%: https://www.cyclinguk.org/statistics https://www.cyclinguk.org/statistics

jeroenhd 2y ago

Blinking lights are also banned in the Netherlands, which does a lot better in the statistics. Even then, the statistics are kind of useless; here bike deaths are mostly caused by old people on (electric) bikes falling over or getting into minor accidents, nothing to do with lights. The statistics are skewed in ways that cannot be compensated for easily, as on average UK cyclists are younger than Dutch cyclists and therefore less likely to die or get severely hurt in a traffic incident. Great Britain has half the bike usage of Germany. Germany has 36 million bikers (43% of 84 million), Great Brittain about 12 million (19% of 68 million), so the stats line up more than you'd think at a first glance. The difference between Germany and Great Brittain becomes laugably obvious when you look at the statistics for how many people use bikes as a primary transport method (6% GB vs 21% DE). That said, biking outside of large cities in Germany is kind of terrible, so I'm not at all surprised about how deadly cycling in Germany, though that may just be my spoilt Dutch take on things. Edit: my source for these statistics: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-05/Global%20Advisor-Cycling%20Across%20the%20World-2022%20Report.pdf https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...

kleiba 2y ago

Correlation is not causation.