5 ms·

Could also be formaldehyde is the most studied for causing cancer. No one wants to fund a longitudinal tire dust study :/

bottom999mottob 2y ago
Or it could be that people spend more time in their luxury vinyl planked house, vaping and having ingress air filled with formaldehyde from traffic It'd make more sense and be less ethical to expose people to either formaldehyde or tire dust in a confined area, but that study is definitely not getting funded
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  What does vaping have to do with this? It doesn’t contain formaldehyde.
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    Shouldn't contain formaldehyde, but does appear to https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321928 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321928 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5954153/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5954153/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- smitelli 2y ago
  Modern construction is insanely "tight" in the sense that most of the inside air stays in and most of the outside air stays out. Some of the most energy-efficient buildings need convoluted ventilation systems to prevent the humidity from getting out of whack and causing mold. My older house might leak conditioned air like a sieve, but it's also venting away the various VOCs from whatever cheap crap I have recently brought inside.
  - fisherjeff 2y ago
    AFAIK, the ventilation systems are only convoluted in the sense that they use a heat exchanger to minimize the temperature difference with the incoming fresh air. It’s not a hack or afterthought: The idea is that airflow is very important, but it needs to be controlled to maximize energy efficiency.
    - hgomersall 2y ago
      Relying on passive ventilation that wasn't designed as such is also not a good way to achieve removal of these nasties. You can see that if you open a window when you have high CO2 - it doesn't drop at any speed.
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Huh for me it drops down to 400 within minutes when I open a window
        hgomersall 2y ago
        Relying is the important point. Sure, it may be fine, but it often isn't, and probably is uncomfortable in winter. And that's before we get to energy losses.
        harvey9 2y ago
        I guess you and the person before might have different circumstances in how your windows and rooms are set out, local prevailing wind and so on.
        ryan-c 2y ago
        I have to open two windows in my home office, otherwise the co2 just hangs around.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Is not just traffic, Biologists are exposed to formaldehyde vapors each day for example, and gloves don't remove it entirely so you end having skin problems.
ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
There have been some studies and they're not encouraging https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/ https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/ https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.4c00792 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.4c00792 Here's a call for more studies: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243333/prioritise-tackling-toxic-emissions-from-tires/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243333/prioritise-tackling-t...
- wongarsu 2y ago
  With particulate counts from heating and car exhaust falling from better filters and increasing electrification, tyre dust is bound to get more spotlight in the coming decade. Especially in Europe and Asia where the inner city isn't just a place for poor people and offices with air filtration.
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    I daresay that the bigger problem with tyre dust is that lots of it gets washed into rivers and waterways whenever it rains. Some of the proprietary tyre chemicals (e.g. 6PPD) have been shown to be extremely toxic to fish, so this is yet another pressure that we're putting on our environment. https://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/news/new-method-measures-levels-toxic-tyre-particles-rivers https://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/news/new-method-measure...
    - wongarsu 2y ago
      But we only care about that when it ends up in fish we eat. The fish are dying anyways from overfishing. And even when the fish we eat are full of microplastic we seem to be able to mostly ignore that. Eating fish is a personal choice and all that. I wish we cared about the rivers and oceans, but as a group we seem to mostly hope that enough bacteria will evolve to eat that stuff. Getting people to do something about the air we breathe is a lot easier (and even then change is slow and with a lot of opposition)
      - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
heresie-dabord 2y ago
Vehicle tires are a deep, integral part of daily economic and socio-economic activity. Deeper than even cigarettes used to be (in North America). There was a time when people couldn't imagine a day without a cigarette. Now think about a future state where living without a personal motor vehicle is both a sane and practical choice. It will similarly take a long time to combat vested interests and change consumers' habits.
- kettlecorn 2y ago
  It could help us reconsider the routing and design of highways, particularly in dense urban environments.
- pastage 2y ago
  Maybe the US should start making it possible to live without a car? No one loose if you do that.
  - yearolinuxdsktp 2y ago
    What country do you live in and what is its population density?
  - adamc 2y ago
    Given that most cities are built and the distances are set, that isn't going to be easy. Yes, they could run more buses, but.
    - darkwizard42 2y ago
      Taxing the previously subsidized usage of those roads is a start. See NYC's recent starter congestion tax. It still has a long way to go, but we can certainly improve the world slowly!
      - adamc 2y ago
        The politics of that in most areas are impossible.

bottom999mottob 2y ago

Or it could be that people spend more time in their luxury vinyl planked house, vaping and having ingress air filled with formaldehyde from traffic It'd make more sense and be less ethical to expose people to either formaldehyde or tire dust in a confined area, but that study is definitely not getting funded

dyauspitr 2y ago
What does vaping have to do with this? It doesn’t contain formaldehyde.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  Shouldn't contain formaldehyde, but does appear to https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321928 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321928 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5954153/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5954153/
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
smitelli 2y ago
Modern construction is insanely "tight" in the sense that most of the inside air stays in and most of the outside air stays out. Some of the most energy-efficient buildings need convoluted ventilation systems to prevent the humidity from getting out of whack and causing mold. My older house might leak conditioned air like a sieve, but it's also venting away the various VOCs from whatever cheap crap I have recently brought inside.
- fisherjeff 2y ago
  AFAIK, the ventilation systems are only convoluted in the sense that they use a heat exchanger to minimize the temperature difference with the incoming fresh air. It’s not a hack or afterthought: The idea is that airflow is very important, but it needs to be controlled to maximize energy efficiency.
  - hgomersall 2y ago
    Relying on passive ventilation that wasn't designed as such is also not a good way to achieve removal of these nasties. You can see that if you open a window when you have high CO2 - it doesn't drop at any speed.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Huh for me it drops down to 400 within minutes when I open a window
      - hgomersall 2y ago
        Relying is the important point. Sure, it may be fine, but it often isn't, and probably is uncomfortable in winter. And that's before we get to energy losses.
      - harvey9 2y ago
        I guess you and the person before might have different circumstances in how your windows and rooms are set out, local prevailing wind and so on.
      - ryan-c 2y ago
        I have to open two windows in my home office, otherwise the co2 just hangs around.
pvaldes 2y ago
Is not just traffic, Biologists are exposed to formaldehyde vapors each day for example, and gloves don't remove it entirely so you end having skin problems.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

There have been some studies and they're not encouraging https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/ https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/ https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.4c00792 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.4c00792 Here's a call for more studies: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243333/prioritise-tackling-toxic-emissions-from-tires/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243333/prioritise-tackling-t...

wongarsu 2y ago
With particulate counts from heating and car exhaust falling from better filters and increasing electrification, tyre dust is bound to get more spotlight in the coming decade. Especially in Europe and Asia where the inner city isn't just a place for poor people and offices with air filtration.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  I daresay that the bigger problem with tyre dust is that lots of it gets washed into rivers and waterways whenever it rains. Some of the proprietary tyre chemicals (e.g. 6PPD) have been shown to be extremely toxic to fish, so this is yet another pressure that we're putting on our environment. https://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/news/new-method-measures-levels-toxic-tyre-particles-rivers https://www.ceh.ac.uk/news-and-media/news/new-method-measure...
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    But we only care about that when it ends up in fish we eat. The fish are dying anyways from overfishing. And even when the fish we eat are full of microplastic we seem to be able to mostly ignore that. Eating fish is a personal choice and all that. I wish we cared about the rivers and oceans, but as a group we seem to mostly hope that enough bacteria will evolve to eat that stuff. Getting people to do something about the air we breathe is a lot easier (and even then change is slow and with a lot of opposition)
    - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

heresie-dabord 2y ago

Vehicle tires are a deep, integral part of daily economic and socio-economic activity. Deeper than even cigarettes used to be (in North America). There was a time when people couldn't imagine a day without a cigarette. Now think about a future state where living without a personal motor vehicle is both a sane and practical choice. It will similarly take a long time to combat vested interests and change consumers' habits.

kettlecorn 2y ago
It could help us reconsider the routing and design of highways, particularly in dense urban environments.
pastage 2y ago
Maybe the US should start making it possible to live without a car? No one loose if you do that.
- yearolinuxdsktp 2y ago
  What country do you live in and what is its population density?
- adamc 2y ago
  Given that most cities are built and the distances are set, that isn't going to be easy. Yes, they could run more buses, but.
  - darkwizard42 2y ago
    Taxing the previously subsidized usage of those roads is a start. See NYC's recent starter congestion tax. It still has a long way to go, but we can certainly improve the world slowly!
    - adamc 2y ago
      The politics of that in most areas are impossible.