3 ms·

There's a difference between "I have changed" and "I have been copied." This seems obvious enough to me that I don't question it, but is it not obvious to every

by smeej 2y ago

There's a difference between "I have changed" and "I have been copied." This seems obvious enough to me that I don't question it, but is it not obvious to everyone?

mensetmanusman 2y ago
Copies are impossible because every moment is change with bounded but non-zero uncertainty.
- smeej 2y ago
  The fact that "you are different" does not mean a "different you" now exists, though. Change of this specific kind is already intrinsically integrated into your existence and identity.
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    Every moment of consciousness is different. It is a different you in that sense. What is the strand that keeps it the same ‘you’?
    - Charon77 2y ago
      Honestly I'd like to have my mind copied, but may only be 'simulated' once the current me is dead. From my perspective I'll be dead and there's no changing that, but from the clone's perspective, life just goes on.
    - smeej 2y ago
      Physical continuity, in the sense that there is no break so significant that at any point one could say, "Before this, smeej0, and after this, smeej1." Unlike the ship of the famous thought experiment, there is and can be no reconstructing of the replaced parts such that smeej0 could ever be reconstituted, so the analogy breaks down in any attempt to apply it to humans. Change is ssential to human nature. A human exists--and the same human exists--fron fertilization to death. Fertilization is a change before which we can say "not smeej" and after which, "smeej." And death is also a change before which we can say "smeej" and after which, "not smeej." There will be vastly, vastly more cells at death than there were at fertilization (assuming smeej made it out of the womb and to an observable state), and the original fertilized cell will no longer exist, but there is no other point along the existence of smeej in which a change happens of such significance as to alter whether or not the same thing is present.
- jiveturkey 2y ago
  true quantum scale copies may be impossible but that resolution may not be necessary to fully copy a person.

by smeej 2y ago

There's a difference between "I have changed" and "I have been copied." This seems obvious enough to me that I don't question it, but is it not obvious to everyone?

mensetmanusman 2y ago

Copies are impossible because every moment is change with bounded but non-zero uncertainty.

smeej 2y ago
The fact that "you are different" does not mean a "different you" now exists, though. Change of this specific kind is already intrinsically integrated into your existence and identity.
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  Every moment of consciousness is different. It is a different you in that sense. What is the strand that keeps it the same ‘you’?
  - Charon77 2y ago
    Honestly I'd like to have my mind copied, but may only be 'simulated' once the current me is dead. From my perspective I'll be dead and there's no changing that, but from the clone's perspective, life just goes on.
  - smeej 2y ago
    Physical continuity, in the sense that there is no break so significant that at any point one could say, "Before this, smeej0, and after this, smeej1." Unlike the ship of the famous thought experiment, there is and can be no reconstructing of the replaced parts such that smeej0 could ever be reconstituted, so the analogy breaks down in any attempt to apply it to humans. Change is ssential to human nature. A human exists--and the same human exists--fron fertilization to death. Fertilization is a change before which we can say "not smeej" and after which, "smeej." And death is also a change before which we can say "smeej" and after which, "not smeej." There will be vastly, vastly more cells at death than there were at fertilization (assuming smeej made it out of the womb and to an observable state), and the original fertilized cell will no longer exist, but there is no other point along the existence of smeej in which a change happens of such significance as to alter whether or not the same thing is present.
jiveturkey 2y ago
true quantum scale copies may be impossible but that resolution may not be necessary to fully copy a person.