4 ms·

It's not much different from anything involving the legal system. If everyone charged with anything ranging from a fine to a criminal misdemeanor just requested

It's not much different from anything involving the legal system. If everyone charged with anything ranging from a fine to a criminal misdemeanor just requested either a trial or an administrative hearing, the system would vanish overnight. I did once discover that in at least one jurisdiction criminal charges were not guaranteed a jury trial, only a bench trial was given. The judge in that circumstance is the prosecutor from another nearby jurisdiction.

suzzer99 2y ago
At least you get to look a human being in the eye in actual court. I ran into the buzzsaw of Amazon's KDP self-publishing fraud detection bots, which decided that my Kindle was plagiarizing my paperback (duh, it's the same book). I went through a series of Kafkaesque email appeals — all denied with progressively vaguer justifications. By the final appeal, there was literally no concrete point left to even argue against, just vague wording about creating a negative experience for readers. I'm not sure a human ever looked at my case. Or if they did, they had a huge incentive to just rubber-stamp the bot's decision and move on. The whole experience was soul-crushing, and I didn't even have that much at stake compared to some. I hope the architects and implementers of this system run into something similar someday so they know how it feels. The only recourse I've ever seen work is to tweet or create a blog post and have it go viral.
llamaimperative 2y ago
> I did once discover that in at least one jurisdiction criminal charges were not guaranteed a jury trial, only a bench trial was given. The judge in that circumstance is the prosecutor from another nearby jurisdiction. What? In the US? Where?
- vundercind 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Impartial_jury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_... TL;DR the Sixth's right to jury trial doesn't apply for criminal charges carrying less than sixth months maximum sentence—even if there are multiple such charges that may add up to more than that. Gonna go out on a limb and guess that plenty of US jurisdictions don't voluntarily pay extra money to make those jury trials if they aren't forced to.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    Frankly I think that's bullshit. If it's not worth paying for the trial for it's not worth prosecuting as criminal.
    - dpkirchner 2y ago
      Agreed, and I'd go further than that: we shouldn't be charging prisoners "rent" or for food or whatever. If it's important enough to imprison someone then we the taxpayers should cover the cost.
      - FireBeyond 2y ago
        Wait til you find out that even if charges are dismissed against you, or a not guilty finding occurs, that Florida will still charge you for your jail or prison stay (and potentially block you from renewing your license until they are paid or you're on an arrangement you are complying with).
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Wow! TIL
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      If you read the same link more, you'll discover it doesn't apply at all under the age of 18
potato3732842 2y ago
>If everyone charged with anything ranging from a fine to a criminal misdemeanor just requested either a trial or an administrative hearing, the system would vanish overnight. That's not a valid excuse for "due process" being completely unfair and placing unreasonable burdens on the accused.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  I don't understand the point you are making in this comment

suzzer99 2y ago

At least you get to look a human being in the eye in actual court. I ran into the buzzsaw of Amazon's KDP self-publishing fraud detection bots, which decided that my Kindle was plagiarizing my paperback (duh, it's the same book). I went through a series of Kafkaesque email appeals — all denied with progressively vaguer justifications. By the final appeal, there was literally no concrete point left to even argue against, just vague wording about creating a negative experience for readers. I'm not sure a human ever looked at my case. Or if they did, they had a huge incentive to just rubber-stamp the bot's decision and move on. The whole experience was soul-crushing, and I didn't even have that much at stake compared to some. I hope the architects and implementers of this system run into something similar someday so they know how it feels. The only recourse I've ever seen work is to tweet or create a blog post and have it go viral.

llamaimperative 2y ago

> I did once discover that in at least one jurisdiction criminal charges were not guaranteed a jury trial, only a bench trial was given. The judge in that circumstance is the prosecutor from another nearby jurisdiction. What? In the US? Where?

vundercind 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Impartial_jury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_... TL;DR the Sixth's right to jury trial doesn't apply for criminal charges carrying less than sixth months maximum sentence—even if there are multiple such charges that may add up to more than that. Gonna go out on a limb and guess that plenty of US jurisdictions don't voluntarily pay extra money to make those jury trials if they aren't forced to.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Frankly I think that's bullshit. If it's not worth paying for the trial for it's not worth prosecuting as criminal.
  - dpkirchner 2y ago
    Agreed, and I'd go further than that: we shouldn't be charging prisoners "rent" or for food or whatever. If it's important enough to imprison someone then we the taxpayers should cover the cost.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      Wait til you find out that even if charges are dismissed against you, or a not guilty finding occurs, that Florida will still charge you for your jail or prison stay (and potentially block you from renewing your license until they are paid or you're on an arrangement you are complying with).
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Wow! TIL
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    If you read the same link more, you'll discover it doesn't apply at all under the age of 18

potato3732842 2y ago

>If everyone charged with anything ranging from a fine to a criminal misdemeanor just requested either a trial or an administrative hearing, the system would vanish overnight. That's not a valid excuse for "due process" being completely unfair and placing unreasonable burdens on the accused.

sidewndr46 2y ago
I don't understand the point you are making in this comment