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When I lived in California years ago I had a custom 2-letter plate. I gave the car to a relative who switched its registration to another state. Years later, I

When I lived in California years ago I had a custom 2-letter plate. I gave the car to a relative who switched its registration to another state. Years later, I got a toll demand from an express lane around LA that had a false positive scan of my plate number—someone else’s partially obscured maybe? I argued the car was registered elsewhere and wasn’t driven in CA, and they denied the appeal. I asked for evidence but they refused. I tried a FOIA request but it was denied because there’s an exemption for data that reveals individuals’ driving patterns—to get the photo I would have had to show up at an office in LA to show my ID and registration to prove it was my car, which it wasn’t! CA law allows the plate scanning and dictates the toll violation letter must show the make and model of the vehicle in question. They just look up the DMV records for the scanned plate. They’re not doing any kind of verification that the vehicle matches. They have 100% faith in the infallibility of these scanners with no appeals process.

pcl 2y ago
Have you sent this note along to your state assembly representative and state senator? https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/ https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/
- rgovostes 2y ago
  I don't have a representative because I don't live in CA. I did contact one of the elected officials that oversees the Orange County Transportation Authority and their office did eventually get it dismissed.
ewoodrich 2y ago
Interesting how different our experiences were in a similar situation. I had a false positive FasTrak ticket from the San Diego area for a timeframe I was living in Sacramento that was tossed (including gigantic late penalties) after a phone call explaining I was at work hundreds of miles away at the time. I was all ready to go with Google Maps Timeline location data but they just took me at my word when they saw where the car was registered.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  San Diego County is run closely aligned with the military. Any chance that "active duty" or other sorts of status are part of this story ? Second part of San Diego County -- I believe they have a stated goal of tracking all vehicles at all times in some automated way.
  - ewoodrich 2y ago
    If you mean me then no I am not military (or been to San Diego at all in over a decade). The fact that my FasTrak account only had tolls for Bay Area bridges and nothing in SoCal (other than the erroneous one) probably made my story more believable.
    - mistrial9 2y ago
      thx for the reply
- FanaHOVA 2y ago
  Same in SF; I used the FastTrak chat for a wrong overdue charge (I was never sent a notice) and they just cancelled. Every notice also comes with a photo of your car, so not sure what happened to og or when.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  The person on the other end of the phone has near complete discretion and the process is still not auditable or verifiable to you. They could make whatever they want up and you wouldn't know. You probably got lucky and called in a month when budgets weren't tight and they weren't trying hard to squeeze out every penny so they just waved it instead of giving you the runaround.
  - doctorpangloss 2y ago
    > The person on the other end of the phone has near complete discretion and the process is still not auditable or verifiable to you. Does every administrative process have to go to a plebiscite or a Judge to be valid? Where do you draw the line?
suzzer99 2y ago
Inscrutable, impossible-to-win appeals processes seem to go hand in hand with automated enforcement mechanisms. Otherwise the financials don't work. This may be an area where govt needs to set some kind of standard of talking to a live human and getting a straightforward explanation of why an appeal is denied. EU will probably lead the way if it happens.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  There's a toll road near me that always triple bills me. Am I really going to call and complain about $1.27 a few times a year?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Am I really going to call and complain about $1.27 a few times a year? If they're triple billing you, they're triple billing someone else. That's worth an attorney's time.
    - BobaFloutist 2y ago
      Right, but it's not worth the parent's time.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > it's not worth the parent's time I’m saying it might be. Being the lead plaintiff in even a threatened class can be lucrative. That said, in their shoes, I’d write a letter to my state AG and copy my state legislative electeds and be done with it.
        sidewndr46 2y ago
        I'm not really sure suing a bankrupt company that is immune from such procedures under state law is a good idea. What am I going to do, pursue a RICO case against them?
- 2y ago
FireBeyond 2y ago
When Homer Simpson gets a parking ticket, there's a number to call. He does. "If you would like to appeal your ticket, press 2." He presses 2. "Your appeal has been [<1 second pause] denied. Thank you. Goodbye."
kimixa 2y ago
I got hit by this too - a "toll evasion" from a similar looking plate (and E vs an F), but a completely different style of car (Truck vs Hatchback) let alone different make/model. And I guess as they drive through 3 cameras that all made the same mistake, I received 3 notices of "Toll Evasion" on the same day for incidents that happened within a few hours of each other. And the third included a notice that said as this was my third violation, they may file a lien against my vehicle and repossess it. Sure, they immediately dropped them when I challenged them, but I often spend multiple months away from the country, I can certainly see me coming back to a repossessed car if I hadn't challenged it in the allowed time.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> with no appeals process Wouldn't it have to hit a traffic court at some point?
- rgovostes 2y ago
  There is an appeals process but it first requires me submitting proof that I wasn't driving in the express lane to them, rather than forcing them to produce any evidence (which, if they even had a photo, would immediately exonerate me). They would not accept my statement that the car was re-registered out of state and then sold, even though the CA DMV records confirmed that the registration expired years prior. If I did submit proof and they still denied it, I could request an administrative review, but first I have to pay the fine as a deposit, which would be refunded to me if I won. Of course, all of the reviewers work for the organization whose scanners falsely accused me in the first place. There is no independent traffic court for this expressway.

pcl 2y ago

Have you sent this note along to your state assembly representative and state senator? https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/ https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/

rgovostes 2y ago
I don't have a representative because I don't live in CA. I did contact one of the elected officials that oversees the Orange County Transportation Authority and their office did eventually get it dismissed.

ewoodrich 2y ago

Interesting how different our experiences were in a similar situation. I had a false positive FasTrak ticket from the San Diego area for a timeframe I was living in Sacramento that was tossed (including gigantic late penalties) after a phone call explaining I was at work hundreds of miles away at the time. I was all ready to go with Google Maps Timeline location data but they just took me at my word when they saw where the car was registered.

mistrial9 2y ago
San Diego County is run closely aligned with the military. Any chance that "active duty" or other sorts of status are part of this story ? Second part of San Diego County -- I believe they have a stated goal of tracking all vehicles at all times in some automated way.
- ewoodrich 2y ago
  If you mean me then no I am not military (or been to San Diego at all in over a decade). The fact that my FasTrak account only had tolls for Bay Area bridges and nothing in SoCal (other than the erroneous one) probably made my story more believable.
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    thx for the reply
FanaHOVA 2y ago
Same in SF; I used the FastTrak chat for a wrong overdue charge (I was never sent a notice) and they just cancelled. Every notice also comes with a photo of your car, so not sure what happened to og or when.
potato3732842 2y ago
The person on the other end of the phone has near complete discretion and the process is still not auditable or verifiable to you. They could make whatever they want up and you wouldn't know. You probably got lucky and called in a month when budgets weren't tight and they weren't trying hard to squeeze out every penny so they just waved it instead of giving you the runaround.
- doctorpangloss 2y ago
  > The person on the other end of the phone has near complete discretion and the process is still not auditable or verifiable to you. Does every administrative process have to go to a plebiscite or a Judge to be valid? Where do you draw the line?

suzzer99 2y ago

Inscrutable, impossible-to-win appeals processes seem to go hand in hand with automated enforcement mechanisms. Otherwise the financials don't work. This may be an area where govt needs to set some kind of standard of talking to a live human and getting a straightforward explanation of why an appeal is denied. EU will probably lead the way if it happens.

sidewndr46 2y ago
There's a toll road near me that always triple bills me. Am I really going to call and complain about $1.27 a few times a year?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Am I really going to call and complain about $1.27 a few times a year? If they're triple billing you, they're triple billing someone else. That's worth an attorney's time.
  - BobaFloutist 2y ago
    Right, but it's not worth the parent's time.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > it's not worth the parent's time I’m saying it might be. Being the lead plaintiff in even a threatened class can be lucrative. That said, in their shoes, I’d write a letter to my state AG and copy my state legislative electeds and be done with it.
      - sidewndr46 2y ago
        I'm not really sure suing a bankrupt company that is immune from such procedures under state law is a good idea. What am I going to do, pursue a RICO case against them?
2y ago

FireBeyond 2y ago

When Homer Simpson gets a parking ticket, there's a number to call. He does. "If you would like to appeal your ticket, press 2." He presses 2. "Your appeal has been [<1 second pause] denied. Thank you. Goodbye."

kimixa 2y ago

I got hit by this too - a "toll evasion" from a similar looking plate (and E vs an F), but a completely different style of car (Truck vs Hatchback) let alone different make/model. And I guess as they drive through 3 cameras that all made the same mistake, I received 3 notices of "Toll Evasion" on the same day for incidents that happened within a few hours of each other. And the third included a notice that said as this was my third violation, they may file a lien against my vehicle and repossess it. Sure, they immediately dropped them when I challenged them, but I often spend multiple months away from the country, I can certainly see me coming back to a repossessed car if I hadn't challenged it in the allowed time.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> with no appeals process Wouldn't it have to hit a traffic court at some point?

rgovostes 2y ago
There is an appeals process but it first requires me submitting proof that I wasn't driving in the express lane to them, rather than forcing them to produce any evidence (which, if they even had a photo, would immediately exonerate me). They would not accept my statement that the car was re-registered out of state and then sold, even though the CA DMV records confirmed that the registration expired years prior. If I did submit proof and they still denied it, I could request an administrative review, but first I have to pay the fine as a deposit, which would be refunded to me if I won. Of course, all of the reviewers work for the organization whose scanners falsely accused me in the first place. There is no independent traffic court for this expressway.