4 ms·

The documented number of people who have survived a full blown rabies infection can be counted on one hand. I only know of 1 person, there may be others.

by bb88 2y ago

darkwizard42 2y ago
Under 20 for sure, Milwaukee Protocol is the usual approach
- ssklash 2y ago
  I read just recently that they no longer even recommend the Milwaukee Protocol, as it's not been shown to have any significant effect.
cafard 2y ago
Back in the 1980s, a Marine at Quantico made the mistake of picking up a sick raccoon--one heard a lot about rabid raccoons in the area then, but I guess he hadn't. He developed rabies, and survived.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > He developed rabies, and survived Certainly not. I'd have said almost certainly had this been a civilian. But the fact that it was an on-duty Marine gives this a 0% chance of not being reported.
  - Mordisquitos 2y ago
    Furthermore, there is a high chance that a Marine in active service would have already received the rabies vaccine as prophylaxis: https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Immunization-Healthcare/Vaccine-Recommendations/Vaccine-Recommendations-by-AOR https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/I...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > there is a high chance that a Marine in active service would have already received the rabies vaccine as prophylaxis Then they wouldn't have developed rabies. There was no Marine who got rabies at Quantico from a raccoon in the 80s who recovered.
    - matteoraso 2y ago
      You still need to get the vaccine after getting bitten, pre-exposure prophylaxis just reduces the amount that you need afterwards. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/rabies https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/rabies
  - cafard 2y ago
    Here is what a search of The Washington Post yields: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/03/18/suspected-rabies-case-here-brings-warning-about-contact-with-animals/7276bdbd-8a2c-45f5-8efc-8044f4f0b456/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/03/18/susp...
    - perihelions 2y ago
      But, also: "None of the tests for rabies and a host of other viral infections has proved positive". - "We know that we had a neurological disease that was probably caused by a virus," Bernard said, adding that the lack of a positive lab test made it "highly unlikely" that the Marine had rabies." - "Throughout his illness, he had a disease compatible with rabies," he said. "We don't know what it is so we can't say what it isn't until we know what it is." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/06/02/suspected-rabies-patient-recovers/d3d658f5-8f1c-4e4c-9e9c-44eee23a9cb7/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/06/02/susp...
- tzs 2y ago
  Marines are often not from the area where they are stationed. If he was from somewhere in the Western US he may not have thought of raccoons as a rabies risk. Rabies is not established in the raccoon populations of California, Oregon, or Washington so the only rabid raccoons you might find are ones that recently got it from a bat or (in California) a skunk. In California that works out to around 4 rabid raccoons found every 20 years or so. In Oregon no rabid raccoons have been documented in at least 50 years. In Washington no rabid raccoons have ever been documented.
- javawizard 2y ago
  Citation most definitely needed for this one.
alexey-salmin 2y ago
Curiously there are around 6 cases reported in India in the recent years, with varying degree of confidence in the diagnosis. With 20000 confirmed death per year in India, this could mean that survival rate is in fact 0.01% and not 0.00%, it just looks the same unless you have a huge sample. Another interesting question is: how many people get infected, then recover, but never develop the symptoms? Do they exist? Could it even be common? On that question, the chances of developing symptoms after a confirmed rabid bite are estimated to be between 15% and 60%. What exactly happens to other 40%? Does the virus fails to get hold and multiply? Or on the contrary it's not stealthy enough and triggers the immune response that defeats it? Or it starts to spread and then stops for some other reason? And whatever happens, what exactly determines it: truly random chance, or genes of the infected person or variant of the virus or type of the bite? Currently we identify rabies with the terminal stage of the disease and the only reliable test is posthumous, so no wonder it's 100% deadly. While it's indeed extremely deadly it's still a curious question of how much exactly this "extremely" means: 60% or 99.99% or 100%. Probably this will never be studied, because the humane way is to conduct none of that research and just vaccinate every suspected person within reach. Plus where possible try to eradicate infection reservoirs like the did in the Alps in 1970s. These 20000 people in India could've lived, it's a shame really.
- apple4ever 2y ago
  Really good point about whether there are cases where the immune system catches it early or the virus can't survive for another reason.
- tzs 2y ago
  > Another interesting question is: how many people get infected, then recover, but never develop the symptoms? Do they exist? It appears so [1]: “New research has shown that humans may be able to survive Rabies without vaccination or treatment after all. A study done in Peru (were Vampire Bats, a known Rabies carrier, are common) lead by Amy Gilbert of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 7 out of the 63 people evaluated tested positive for rabies antibodies. Of those seven people only one had previously taken the Rabies vaccine. This meant that the other six had produced antibodies on their own after being exposed to the virus and had survived.” [1] https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/viruses101/is_rabies_really_100_fatal/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/viruses101/is_rabies_re...

The documented number of people who have survived a full blown rabies infection can be counted on one hand. I only know of 1 person, there may be others.

by bb88 2y ago

The documented number of people who have survived a full blown rabies infection can be counted on one hand. I only know of 1 person, there may be others.

darkwizard42 2y ago

Under 20 for sure, Milwaukee Protocol is the usual approach

ssklash 2y ago
I read just recently that they no longer even recommend the Milwaukee Protocol, as it's not been shown to have any significant effect.

cafard 2y ago

Back in the 1980s, a Marine at Quantico made the mistake of picking up a sick raccoon--one heard a lot about rabid raccoons in the area then, but I guess he hadn't. He developed rabies, and survived.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> He developed rabies, and survived Certainly not. I'd have said almost certainly had this been a civilian. But the fact that it was an on-duty Marine gives this a 0% chance of not being reported.
- Mordisquitos 2y ago
  Furthermore, there is a high chance that a Marine in active service would have already received the rabies vaccine as prophylaxis: https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Immunization-Healthcare/Vaccine-Recommendations/Vaccine-Recommendations-by-AOR https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/I...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > there is a high chance that a Marine in active service would have already received the rabies vaccine as prophylaxis Then they wouldn't have developed rabies. There was no Marine who got rabies at Quantico from a raccoon in the 80s who recovered.
  - matteoraso 2y ago
    You still need to get the vaccine after getting bitten, pre-exposure prophylaxis just reduces the amount that you need afterwards. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/rabies https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/rabies
- cafard 2y ago
  Here is what a search of The Washington Post yields: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/03/18/suspected-rabies-case-here-brings-warning-about-contact-with-animals/7276bdbd-8a2c-45f5-8efc-8044f4f0b456/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/03/18/susp...
  - perihelions 2y ago
    But, also: "None of the tests for rabies and a host of other viral infections has proved positive". - "We know that we had a neurological disease that was probably caused by a virus," Bernard said, adding that the lack of a positive lab test made it "highly unlikely" that the Marine had rabies." - "Throughout his illness, he had a disease compatible with rabies," he said. "We don't know what it is so we can't say what it isn't until we know what it is." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/06/02/suspected-rabies-patient-recovers/d3d658f5-8f1c-4e4c-9e9c-44eee23a9cb7/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1983/06/02/susp...
tzs 2y ago
Marines are often not from the area where they are stationed. If he was from somewhere in the Western US he may not have thought of raccoons as a rabies risk. Rabies is not established in the raccoon populations of California, Oregon, or Washington so the only rabid raccoons you might find are ones that recently got it from a bat or (in California) a skunk. In California that works out to around 4 rabid raccoons found every 20 years or so. In Oregon no rabid raccoons have been documented in at least 50 years. In Washington no rabid raccoons have ever been documented.
javawizard 2y ago
Citation most definitely needed for this one.

alexey-salmin 2y ago

Curiously there are around 6 cases reported in India in the recent years, with varying degree of confidence in the diagnosis. With 20000 confirmed death per year in India, this could mean that survival rate is in fact 0.01% and not 0.00%, it just looks the same unless you have a huge sample. Another interesting question is: how many people get infected, then recover, but never develop the symptoms? Do they exist? Could it even be common? On that question, the chances of developing symptoms after a confirmed rabid bite are estimated to be between 15% and 60%. What exactly happens to other 40%? Does the virus fails to get hold and multiply? Or on the contrary it's not stealthy enough and triggers the immune response that defeats it? Or it starts to spread and then stops for some other reason? And whatever happens, what exactly determines it: truly random chance, or genes of the infected person or variant of the virus or type of the bite? Currently we identify rabies with the terminal stage of the disease and the only reliable test is posthumous, so no wonder it's 100% deadly. While it's indeed extremely deadly it's still a curious question of how much exactly this "extremely" means: 60% or 99.99% or 100%. Probably this will never be studied, because the humane way is to conduct none of that research and just vaccinate every suspected person within reach. Plus where possible try to eradicate infection reservoirs like the did in the Alps in 1970s. These 20000 people in India could've lived, it's a shame really.

apple4ever 2y ago
Really good point about whether there are cases where the immune system catches it early or the virus can't survive for another reason.
tzs 2y ago
> Another interesting question is: how many people get infected, then recover, but never develop the symptoms? Do they exist? It appears so [1]: “New research has shown that humans may be able to survive Rabies without vaccination or treatment after all. A study done in Peru (were Vampire Bats, a known Rabies carrier, are common) lead by Amy Gilbert of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 7 out of the 63 people evaluated tested positive for rabies antibodies. Of those seven people only one had previously taken the Rabies vaccine. This meant that the other six had produced antibodies on their own after being exposed to the virus and had survived.” [1] https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/viruses101/is_rabies_really_100_fatal/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/viruses101/is_rabies_re...