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I can't wait until arms export controls are challenged under first amendment grounds, we already came close that one time with encryption algorithms being publi

I can't wait until arms export controls are challenged under first amendment grounds, we already came close that one time with encryption algorithms being published as a book If college kids can do it, there's no knowledge that terrorists in even backwater shitholes (a lot of al-qaeda were engineers by training) can't quickly obtain. We might as well drop the pretense that the knowledge itself is something so valuable to building weapons that speaking it to foreigners should be illegal

r00fus 2y ago
Makes complete sense. Iran/China/Russia all have more advanced missiles than the US has deployed like, ever. Iran and Russia have demonstrated recently hypersonics that are effectively unblockable. What kind of knowledge do these arms export controls really do other than make it more difficult to compete with defense contractors?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > Iran/China/Russia all have more advanced missiles than the US has deployed like, ever. This is somewhat true for China's, on paper at least. Maybe. Russia's Kinzhals got intercepted by 1980s Patriots. Iran's are just boring old ballistic missiles. > Iran and Russia have demonstrated recently hypersonics that are effectively unblockable. The US has plenty of similar ballistic missiles; ATACMS is similarly tough to intercept. Doubly so in large numbers, which was how Iran got some through.
- wbl 2y ago
  We bought Russian anti-ship missiles in the 1990s and they were unable to meet our requirements for our testing missiles, so we had to improve them.
foota 2y ago
I don't think this is an accurate statement. Consider for instance that the Sinaloa Cartel is currently hiring college students to try and reproduce chemical precursors for the production of Fentanyl. This is something that's probably trivial for a real company with resources to do, but because it's not public knowledge it's difficult for them. I think the same could likely be said for this kind of production of rocketry. For another example, consider how Russia had to rely on Iran for the production of their Shahed drones (until Iran showed them how to produce them), despite Russia being a longtime producer of weaponry.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The Shahed drones were entirely within Russian capacity to design and produce. They just needed them now.
  - foota 2y ago
    If that was true, why are they now producing shahed drones domestically instead of a homegrown drone?
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      They’re using plenty of homegrown stuff - like that new ballistic missile they used the other day. The Shaheds are probably most useful not for advanced tech (they aren’t!) but for the ability to produce them while under global sanctions. Such sanctions are new to Russia, but Iran had a decade or two to figure out how to evade them.
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
> If college kids can do it I think this particular engineering department has a very exceptional group of college kids. I don't hear much about students in other schools in other states much less other countries accomplishing near this much. I know "American Exceptionalism" probably is not a view that HN audience would give much merit to, but we are still one of the only places in the world where smart students are given opportunities like this. Our culture seemed to give "opportunity" a good balance (even when we see the many downfalls, ie the entire crypto space)
- jltsiren 2y ago
  I find your choice of words interesting. "Students are given opportunities" sounds pretty much the way things were done in the USSR. The Western way is (or at least used to be) treating students as adults who have the independence and the agency to create opportunities for themselves.

r00fus 2y ago

Makes complete sense. Iran/China/Russia all have more advanced missiles than the US has deployed like, ever. Iran and Russia have demonstrated recently hypersonics that are effectively unblockable. What kind of knowledge do these arms export controls really do other than make it more difficult to compete with defense contractors?

ceejayoz 2y ago
> Iran/China/Russia all have more advanced missiles than the US has deployed like, ever. This is somewhat true for China's, on paper at least. Maybe. Russia's Kinzhals got intercepted by 1980s Patriots. Iran's are just boring old ballistic missiles. > Iran and Russia have demonstrated recently hypersonics that are effectively unblockable. The US has plenty of similar ballistic missiles; ATACMS is similarly tough to intercept. Doubly so in large numbers, which was how Iran got some through.
wbl 2y ago
We bought Russian anti-ship missiles in the 1990s and they were unable to meet our requirements for our testing missiles, so we had to improve them.

foota 2y ago

I don't think this is an accurate statement. Consider for instance that the Sinaloa Cartel is currently hiring college students to try and reproduce chemical precursors for the production of Fentanyl. This is something that's probably trivial for a real company with resources to do, but because it's not public knowledge it's difficult for them. I think the same could likely be said for this kind of production of rocketry. For another example, consider how Russia had to rely on Iran for the production of their Shahed drones (until Iran showed them how to produce them), despite Russia being a longtime producer of weaponry.

ceejayoz 2y ago
The Shahed drones were entirely within Russian capacity to design and produce. They just needed them now.
- foota 2y ago
  If that was true, why are they now producing shahed drones domestically instead of a homegrown drone?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    They’re using plenty of homegrown stuff - like that new ballistic missile they used the other day. The Shaheds are probably most useful not for advanced tech (they aren’t!) but for the ability to produce them while under global sanctions. Such sanctions are new to Russia, but Iran had a decade or two to figure out how to evade them.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago

> If college kids can do it I think this particular engineering department has a very exceptional group of college kids. I don't hear much about students in other schools in other states much less other countries accomplishing near this much. I know "American Exceptionalism" probably is not a view that HN audience would give much merit to, but we are still one of the only places in the world where smart students are given opportunities like this. Our culture seemed to give "opportunity" a good balance (even when we see the many downfalls, ie the entire crypto space)

jltsiren 2y ago
I find your choice of words interesting. "Students are given opportunities" sounds pretty much the way things were done in the USSR. The Western way is (or at least used to be) treating students as adults who have the independence and the agency to create opportunities for themselves.