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You also don't have to choose any of those random NPM libraries, React can stand on its own. Adopting a new technology without any of those libraries just means

by causal 2y ago

You also don't have to choose any of those random NPM libraries, React can stand on its own. Adopting a new technology without any of those libraries just means having to roll your own, but that was always an option.

azemetre 2y ago
Do you write software professionally? Not saying this to chide but these types of comments always come from either devs that just work by themselves or green ears. I have never worked on a project where the only dependency was react (let's ignore build or testing tools for the sake of argument). What I do mostly see are projects that captured the react zeitgeist of the time in regards to which "popular" libraries were recommended and people just copied willy nilly. Maybe this is more of an indictment against software development in general where professionals are not allowed to design and engineer robust solutions because the alternative is getting fired from your job because John Dev was able to complete more tickets in a sprint when they downloaded a bunch of bloated npm libs that will break in two years and they'll job hop to the next place to continue the cycle.
- causal 2y ago
  Believe it or not even large teams can effectively constrain package adoption without abandoning NPM altogether. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean everyone who has must be new to the field.
  - azemetre 2y ago
    I'm not saying I haven't seen it, but I would bet my lifesavings the overall percentage is quite small. Why is bringing up the minority use case helpful in these discussions? Some teams just use javascript and opt for zero dependencies too, these teams are also an extreme minority. You can't have an earnest discussion about react if you're going to argue that no one pulls in a myriad of other dependencies. Even the react docs recommend you use frameworks when starting out: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project Your usage, while quite admirable (I earnestly mean that too, I wish I was on a team that was disciplined enough to only use react and nothing else), isn't the common experience.
    - 9rx 2y ago
      > Why is bringing up the minority use case helpful in these discussions? It was presented as a challenge to the status quo. As you point out, a majority of developers don't ever think twice about including everything and the kitchen sink. The idea that you don't have to do that may not be novel information to you, but is to a large number of developers. If they don't hear it here, where are they going to hear it?
      - azemetre 2y ago
        That's true but that's not how I read their argument.
        9rx 2y ago
        How else could it be read?

by causal 2y ago

azemetre 2y ago

Do you write software professionally? Not saying this to chide but these types of comments always come from either devs that just work by themselves or green ears. I have never worked on a project where the only dependency was react (let's ignore build or testing tools for the sake of argument). What I do mostly see are projects that captured the react zeitgeist of the time in regards to which "popular" libraries were recommended and people just copied willy nilly. Maybe this is more of an indictment against software development in general where professionals are not allowed to design and engineer robust solutions because the alternative is getting fired from your job because John Dev was able to complete more tickets in a sprint when they downloaded a bunch of bloated npm libs that will break in two years and they'll job hop to the next place to continue the cycle.

causal 2y ago
Believe it or not even large teams can effectively constrain package adoption without abandoning NPM altogether. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean everyone who has must be new to the field.
- azemetre 2y ago
  I'm not saying I haven't seen it, but I would bet my lifesavings the overall percentage is quite small. Why is bringing up the minority use case helpful in these discussions? Some teams just use javascript and opt for zero dependencies too, these teams are also an extreme minority. You can't have an earnest discussion about react if you're going to argue that no one pulls in a myriad of other dependencies. Even the react docs recommend you use frameworks when starting out: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project Your usage, while quite admirable (I earnestly mean that too, I wish I was on a team that was disciplined enough to only use react and nothing else), isn't the common experience.
  - 9rx 2y ago
    > Why is bringing up the minority use case helpful in these discussions? It was presented as a challenge to the status quo. As you point out, a majority of developers don't ever think twice about including everything and the kitchen sink. The idea that you don't have to do that may not be novel information to you, but is to a large number of developers. If they don't hear it here, where are they going to hear it?
    - azemetre 2y ago
      That's true but that's not how I read their argument.
      - 9rx 2y ago
        How else could it be read?