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> President Yoon Suk Yeol declared an “emergency martial law,” Tuesday accusing the country’s opposition of controlling the parliament [...] Yoon — whose approv

> President Yoon Suk Yeol declared an “emergency martial law,” Tuesday accusing the country’s opposition of controlling the parliament [...] Yoon — whose approval rating has dipped in recent months — Seems like a coup. > Yoon’s conservative People Power Party had been locked in an impasse with the liberal opposition Democratic Party over next year’s budget bill. Yeah, just like in France where the government is expected to fall within the next two days. Not a reason to attempt to force the way: the fact opposition can actually sometimes fulfil its purpose which include blocking a budget is a normal thing in democracy.

bluGill 2y ago
Not just link in France. France is in the midst of a government fall, but this is something built into how they do democracy and so a new one is expected to form in a few months on the backs of their democratic process. This is instead a rejection of the democratic process. I don't know enough about SK's internals to say if the democratic process is already dead because of corruption (as the leader claims), or if the leader is trying to kill the process using corruption as a scape goat - but everyone should strongly lean towards the later.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  >Not just link in France. France is in the midst of a government fall, but this is something built into how they do democracy and so a new one is expected to form in a few months on the backs of their democratic process. The longest a French Republic has lasted is 70 years. The fifth republic is today 66 years old. The ordinary can turn into the extraordinary in an afternoon.
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    Sure, but I seem to recall the leader of the last republic was De Gaulle. The first leader of the current republic was also De Gaulle. It was just him consolidating his political base.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      It was France avoiding the Spanish Civil war.
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        The... secret Spanish Civil War that happened in 1958?
        Mordisquitos 2y ago
        I understand they meant it was France avoiding having an analogous event to the Spanish Civil War.
    - JPLeRouzic 2y ago
      > I seem to recall the leader of the last republic was De Gaulle. The first leader of the current republic was also De Gaulle. No, De Gaulle created the V republic with a military coup [1]. There were troops all over France, including paratroopers in Fontainebleau at 60km from Paris [0], while the "président du conseil" of the 4th republic transmitted peacefully the power to De Gaulle, to mitigate a civil war. Wikipedia: "The May 1958 crisis (French: Crise de mai 1958), also known as the Algiers putsch or the coup of 13 May, was a political crisis in France during the turmoil of the Algerian War of Independence (1954–1962) which led to the collapse of the Fourth Republic and its replacement by the Fifth Republic led by Charles de Gaulle who returned to power after a twelve-year absence. It started as a political uprising in Algiers on 13 May 1958 and then became a military coup d'état led by a coalition headed by Algiers deputy and reserve airborne officer Pierre Lagaillarde, French Generals Raoul Salan, Edmond Jouhaud, Jean Gracieux, and Jacques Massu, and by Admiral Philippe Auboyneau, commander of the Mediterranean fleet. The coup was supported by former Algerian Governor General Jacques Soustelle and his activist allies. The coup had as its aim to oppose the formation of Pierre Pflimlin's new government and to impose a change of policies in favor of the right-wing partisans of French Algeria." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Resurrection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Resurrection [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Or, as the quip goes, as soon as the bread gets too expensive in Paris.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Regardless, the current fall of government there is just a call to start elections over again with some new representatives. That is very different from a coup. Of course we are watching things happen - a coup can happen to anyone at any time (including whatever country you live in!), but so far it doesn't look like that.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  SK's last presidential election in 2022 was very, very close (48.5-47.3), the closest in South Korean history. Legislative elections take place at the midpoint between presidential elections, and the opposition kept their majority in 2024, so there was hardly a mandate, if anything the legislative elections indicated a rebuke. Yoon Suk Yeol is the one of the most unpopular democratic heads of state with 19% approval and 72% disapproval. --- It's worth noting that it seems like he didn't talk to anyone about this and even the head of his party in the National Assembly said they would vote to overturn it.
  - ouraf 2y ago
    Even with his presidency ending, this is insane. In most developed, capitalist countries in the west, anything close to a coup is career suicide, even more so when this comes from the top without the support from media and general population. You don't become the leader of a developed, stable, democratic nation by pulling crazy stunts like that. Is there any other factor to influence or any big group that would benefit from such extreme measures?
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      The start of democracy in South Korea was not that long ago in 1988. I do think he was acting by himself; he’s generally got weird political instincts. Part of how he got walloped in the legislative elections was by remarking that green onions were cheap normally because of his policies, when it turned out the supermarket he was electioneering at was running a 75% off sale on them. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/political-leeks-scallions-become-south-korea-election-attack-line https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/political-leeks-... South Korea has had exactly one president in the modern democratic era who hasn’t been indicted after their term or impeached.
t-3 2y ago
Wasn't a new government elected but never allowed to take power due to Macron refusing to confirm them just a few months ago? Will that change now?
- chgs 2y ago
  No Broadly Parliament is split into 3 camps, the left, the centr, and the right, all pretty much even. Any two could work together as a coalition and agree to a leader, but that is proving harder.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Leherenn 2y ago
  Not exactly. There was a parliament election, with three blocks each gaining roughly a third of the seats. The block that won the most seats (but not enough to have a majority) immediately declared they would never compromise/ally with anyone else. Essentially, if they were called on to form a government, they were almost certainly going to be immediately censured. So Macron, rightly or wrongly depending on who you ask, decided to not call on them since he estimated it was bound to fail and waste time. Instead, he nominated someone from a (now) minor political force because, at least in theory, they were enough people willing to negotiate with them to form a majority. Looks like it didn't work in the end and now France will be stuck because no one is willing to compromise.

bluGill 2y ago

Not just link in France. France is in the midst of a government fall, but this is something built into how they do democracy and so a new one is expected to form in a few months on the backs of their democratic process. This is instead a rejection of the democratic process. I don't know enough about SK's internals to say if the democratic process is already dead because of corruption (as the leader claims), or if the leader is trying to kill the process using corruption as a scape goat - but everyone should strongly lean towards the later.

llm_trw 2y ago
>Not just link in France. France is in the midst of a government fall, but this is something built into how they do democracy and so a new one is expected to form in a few months on the backs of their democratic process. The longest a French Republic has lasted is 70 years. The fifth republic is today 66 years old. The ordinary can turn into the extraordinary in an afternoon.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  Sure, but I seem to recall the leader of the last republic was De Gaulle. The first leader of the current republic was also De Gaulle. It was just him consolidating his political base.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    It was France avoiding the Spanish Civil war.
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      The... secret Spanish Civil War that happened in 1958?
      - Mordisquitos 2y ago
        I understand they meant it was France avoiding having an analogous event to the Spanish Civil War.
  - JPLeRouzic 2y ago
    > I seem to recall the leader of the last republic was De Gaulle. The first leader of the current republic was also De Gaulle. No, De Gaulle created the V republic with a military coup [1]. There were troops all over France, including paratroopers in Fontainebleau at 60km from Paris [0], while the "président du conseil" of the 4th republic transmitted peacefully the power to De Gaulle, to mitigate a civil war. Wikipedia: "The May 1958 crisis (French: Crise de mai 1958), also known as the Algiers putsch or the coup of 13 May, was a political crisis in France during the turmoil of the Algerian War of Independence (1954–1962) which led to the collapse of the Fourth Republic and its replacement by the Fifth Republic led by Charles de Gaulle who returned to power after a twelve-year absence. It started as a political uprising in Algiers on 13 May 1958 and then became a military coup d'état led by a coalition headed by Algiers deputy and reserve airborne officer Pierre Lagaillarde, French Generals Raoul Salan, Edmond Jouhaud, Jean Gracieux, and Jacques Massu, and by Admiral Philippe Auboyneau, commander of the Mediterranean fleet. The coup was supported by former Algerian Governor General Jacques Soustelle and his activist allies. The coup had as its aim to oppose the formation of Pierre Pflimlin's new government and to impose a change of policies in favor of the right-wing partisans of French Algeria." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Resurrection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Resurrection [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Or, as the quip goes, as soon as the bread gets too expensive in Paris.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Regardless, the current fall of government there is just a call to start elections over again with some new representatives. That is very different from a coup. Of course we are watching things happen - a coup can happen to anyone at any time (including whatever country you live in!), but so far it doesn't look like that.
bobthepanda 2y ago
SK's last presidential election in 2022 was very, very close (48.5-47.3), the closest in South Korean history. Legislative elections take place at the midpoint between presidential elections, and the opposition kept their majority in 2024, so there was hardly a mandate, if anything the legislative elections indicated a rebuke. Yoon Suk Yeol is the one of the most unpopular democratic heads of state with 19% approval and 72% disapproval. --- It's worth noting that it seems like he didn't talk to anyone about this and even the head of his party in the National Assembly said they would vote to overturn it.
- ouraf 2y ago
  Even with his presidency ending, this is insane. In most developed, capitalist countries in the west, anything close to a coup is career suicide, even more so when this comes from the top without the support from media and general population. You don't become the leader of a developed, stable, democratic nation by pulling crazy stunts like that. Is there any other factor to influence or any big group that would benefit from such extreme measures?
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    The start of democracy in South Korea was not that long ago in 1988. I do think he was acting by himself; he’s generally got weird political instincts. Part of how he got walloped in the legislative elections was by remarking that green onions were cheap normally because of his policies, when it turned out the supermarket he was electioneering at was running a 75% off sale on them. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/political-leeks-scallions-become-south-korea-election-attack-line https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/political-leeks-... South Korea has had exactly one president in the modern democratic era who hasn’t been indicted after their term or impeached.

t-3 2y ago

Wasn't a new government elected but never allowed to take power due to Macron refusing to confirm them just a few months ago? Will that change now?

chgs 2y ago
No Broadly Parliament is split into 3 camps, the left, the centr, and the right, all pretty much even. Any two could work together as a coalition and agree to a leader, but that is proving harder.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Leherenn 2y ago
Not exactly. There was a parliament election, with three blocks each gaining roughly a third of the seats. The block that won the most seats (but not enough to have a majority) immediately declared they would never compromise/ally with anyone else. Essentially, if they were called on to form a government, they were almost certainly going to be immediately censured. So Macron, rightly or wrongly depending on who you ask, decided to not call on them since he estimated it was bound to fail and waste time. Instead, he nominated someone from a (now) minor political force because, at least in theory, they were enough people willing to negotiate with them to form a majority. Looks like it didn't work in the end and now France will be stuck because no one is willing to compromise.