4 ms·

It's a very brief news article but this caught my eye: "He has also been dismissing calls for independent investigations into scandals involving his wife and t

It's a very brief news article but this caught my eye: "He has also been dismissing calls for independent investigations into scandals involving his wife and top officials" Well, there's a standard motive. And, if there's two things that seems constant in conservative politics, it's that they don't want anything to change (by defintion of 'conservative'), and they do seem to be forever embroiled in accusations of corruption. And they never look trustworthy, for what that's worth. Perhaps it is as I understand that a lifetime of being lousy to other human beings shows on one's face, in one's voice, and is evident in one's lack of happiness. We all reap what we sow, for ill or good, and apparently the vast majority of people that seek power generally do so for selfish, greedy reasons.

bluGill 2y ago
Take the conservative out of that. You see it in every human. If it isn't in you it means you are carefully suppressing it. Often those who seem to be suppressing it are really just aware they would be caught and so the image of being honest is important to maintain. The above should not be confused with values. Many people abusing power really have values against what they are doing. They have just figuring out how to convince themselves the alternatives are worse. Having values does make it somewhat easier to suppress your tendency to abuse those values, but only somewhat.
- JoshTriplett 2y ago
  > If it isn't in you it means you are carefully suppressing it. This is false and excessively cynical. There are genuinely good people who have values and live up to those values, without hypocrisy, and that doesn't mean they have "carefully suppressed" desires to do otherwise.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    They have desires all the time. Most of them will admit it. their actions prove their success at the suppression.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      The Path of Love begins with exercising our free will to choose to not be a selfish ahole. Suppression of our selfish urges is the first step to fully overcoming them, which is the process of purifying one's soul and, therefore, even the potential to vice. "Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God." That is the highest point of human self-evolution, though precious few even attempt it, much less recognize a person who has done so. And so few believe it to be possible that even those of us who try are in a small minority.
    - JoshTriplett 2y ago
      Of course people have desires. My point is that some people have their desires and their values aligned, rather than having desires that run contrary to their values. No "suppression" required.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Sometimes that happens. They also have other desires that conflict with their values at times. This is just a normal part of being a complex human.
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 2y ago
      We all have conflicting desires. You might desire a healthy physique while simultaneously desiring a hamburger. But do you want to want the hamburger? Or do you want to want a salad? Which do you, the person (not the animal), really want? With a bit of reflection, it's not so difficult to figure out what you as a person really want, and it's often different than your lower level primal drives. Those who choose to eat the salad haven't suppressed anything - they've simply aligned their actions with their higher order desires.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Let me just acknowledge the excellence of JoshTriplett's comment and add a bit of my own. What you are really saying (not that you have the wherewithall to admit it) is you don't believe this can be done, and therefore no one can do it. In other words, you don't believe we can self-evolve into being better people, much less being beyond temptation to selfishness at the expense of others. And so, by believing this, you have prevented yourself from even trying to be better, but you have only limited yourself. The rest of us are capable of evolving ourselves beyond our vices into the selfless light of compassionate service to mankind, not that it has ever been a commonly taken path. This is why the person who does not enter the Path of Love has "eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and a heart that does not understand," as we have to begin our transformation to see the world (and ourselves) for what is possible. This is why the uncommitted can be fooled by the cruelly lying oppressors of mankind, as has been repeated throughout history. Those bent on selfish mischief cater to the ignorant's selfish desire for ease, no matter who else is harmed in the process. In this way they are even worse than the animals, as they use our advanced abilities to behave as mere pack animals, lacking all humanity and its essential element: compassion.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    It can be and is done. However it is only by careful effort as your base nature will sometimes do something that isn't a good thing. You are the same type of human as everyone else. There isn't anything special about Stalin that made him evil, all the evil in him could come out of you in the right situation. (and he thought he was doing good).
    - hackable_sand 2y ago
      It doesn't take much effort or care at all to be genuine and good.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Sometimes it doesn't take much effort. Sometimes it takes a lot. Depends on what values and desires are in conflict, what everyone else is doing, how likely you think you are to get caught (not getting caught would of course bring in a different desire into the question), and probably some other values/desires that I can't think of now. Many people set their life up so that they avoid the conflicts they believe would be a problem for them. People are complex creatures with complex values and desires. Sometimes two values are in conflict (which may be a hypothetical or real situation) so it is impossible to be true to both values at the same time.
phkahler 2y ago
>> And, if there's two things that seems constant in conservative politics, it's that they don't want anything to change (by defintion of 'conservative'), and they do seem to be forever embroiled in accusations of corruption. Remember "accusation of corruption" is not the same as proven corruption, but making an accusation is an overt action by someone. Many accusations are false and sometimes are even projections.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Also remember that the guilty power-mongers' first defense is always "deny, deny, deny". The first casualty of corruption is honesty.
  - kbelder 2y ago
    >Also remember that the guilty power-mongers' first defense is always "deny, deny, deny". That's generally the first defense of innocent people, too.

bluGill 2y ago

Take the conservative out of that. You see it in every human. If it isn't in you it means you are carefully suppressing it. Often those who seem to be suppressing it are really just aware they would be caught and so the image of being honest is important to maintain. The above should not be confused with values. Many people abusing power really have values against what they are doing. They have just figuring out how to convince themselves the alternatives are worse. Having values does make it somewhat easier to suppress your tendency to abuse those values, but only somewhat.

JoshTriplett 2y ago
> If it isn't in you it means you are carefully suppressing it. This is false and excessively cynical. There are genuinely good people who have values and live up to those values, without hypocrisy, and that doesn't mean they have "carefully suppressed" desires to do otherwise.
- bluGill 2y ago
  They have desires all the time. Most of them will admit it. their actions prove their success at the suppression.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    The Path of Love begins with exercising our free will to choose to not be a selfish ahole. Suppression of our selfish urges is the first step to fully overcoming them, which is the process of purifying one's soul and, therefore, even the potential to vice. "Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God." That is the highest point of human self-evolution, though precious few even attempt it, much less recognize a person who has done so. And so few believe it to be possible that even those of us who try are in a small minority.
  - JoshTriplett 2y ago
    Of course people have desires. My point is that some people have their desires and their values aligned, rather than having desires that run contrary to their values. No "suppression" required.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Sometimes that happens. They also have other desires that conflict with their values at times. This is just a normal part of being a complex human.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 2y ago
    We all have conflicting desires. You might desire a healthy physique while simultaneously desiring a hamburger. But do you want to want the hamburger? Or do you want to want a salad? Which do you, the person (not the animal), really want? With a bit of reflection, it's not so difficult to figure out what you as a person really want, and it's often different than your lower level primal drives. Those who choose to eat the salad haven't suppressed anything - they've simply aligned their actions with their higher order desires.
MrMcCall 2y ago
Let me just acknowledge the excellence of JoshTriplett's comment and add a bit of my own. What you are really saying (not that you have the wherewithall to admit it) is you don't believe this can be done, and therefore no one can do it. In other words, you don't believe we can self-evolve into being better people, much less being beyond temptation to selfishness at the expense of others. And so, by believing this, you have prevented yourself from even trying to be better, but you have only limited yourself. The rest of us are capable of evolving ourselves beyond our vices into the selfless light of compassionate service to mankind, not that it has ever been a commonly taken path. This is why the person who does not enter the Path of Love has "eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and a heart that does not understand," as we have to begin our transformation to see the world (and ourselves) for what is possible. This is why the uncommitted can be fooled by the cruelly lying oppressors of mankind, as has been repeated throughout history. Those bent on selfish mischief cater to the ignorant's selfish desire for ease, no matter who else is harmed in the process. In this way they are even worse than the animals, as they use our advanced abilities to behave as mere pack animals, lacking all humanity and its essential element: compassion.
- bluGill 2y ago
  It can be and is done. However it is only by careful effort as your base nature will sometimes do something that isn't a good thing. You are the same type of human as everyone else. There isn't anything special about Stalin that made him evil, all the evil in him could come out of you in the right situation. (and he thought he was doing good).
  - hackable_sand 2y ago
    It doesn't take much effort or care at all to be genuine and good.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Sometimes it doesn't take much effort. Sometimes it takes a lot. Depends on what values and desires are in conflict, what everyone else is doing, how likely you think you are to get caught (not getting caught would of course bring in a different desire into the question), and probably some other values/desires that I can't think of now. Many people set their life up so that they avoid the conflicts they believe would be a problem for them. People are complex creatures with complex values and desires. Sometimes two values are in conflict (which may be a hypothetical or real situation) so it is impossible to be true to both values at the same time.

phkahler 2y ago

>> And, if there's two things that seems constant in conservative politics, it's that they don't want anything to change (by defintion of 'conservative'), and they do seem to be forever embroiled in accusations of corruption. Remember "accusation of corruption" is not the same as proven corruption, but making an accusation is an overt action by someone. Many accusations are false and sometimes are even projections.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Also remember that the guilty power-mongers' first defense is always "deny, deny, deny". The first casualty of corruption is honesty.
- kbelder 2y ago
  >Also remember that the guilty power-mongers' first defense is always "deny, deny, deny". That's generally the first defense of innocent people, too.