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The subtext of the subtext you mention in your first assertion hinges on the assumption the UK is where these people eventually want to live, once they have tha

The subtext of the subtext you mention in your first assertion hinges on the assumption the UK is where these people eventually want to live, once they have that education. A significant number of the British don’t even want to live here, post Brexit, and neither do most of the international students I’ve met. As for the second assertion, that’s just false. I had to apply for a graduate degree as an international student before my citizenship was awarded, the course requirements were explicitly identical, the only different was vastly higher fees and proof of both funding capacity and English language proficiency.

graemep 2y ago
> A significant number of the British don’t even want to live here, post Brexit Strangely few of them leave. There is a lot of "grass is greener" in British pessimism about their country. > neither do most of the international students I’ve met Most do not, but most never did. Most people prefer to live in their home country (especially if they are the sort that can afford overseas fees). That said they may want a degree that is recognised internationally (e.g. they get a cheaper degree that will be recognised in the US where salaries are much higher). There are also a significant proportion who do want to stay. As someone with dual nationality the UK is my preferred place to live.
- yawpitch 2y ago
  > Strangely few of them leave. There is a lot of "grass is greener" in British pessimism about their country. Talk to your average kid stuck in 90% of the one-time industrial towns north of London and the grass isn’t just greener… the fact they’ll never be able to afford to go doesn’t mean they wouldn’t at the drop of a hat if they could. > Most do not, but most never did There’s no obviously valid complaint about those who come here, pay international fees, maybe work a few years while paying taxes and NHS premiums, then go elsewhere or home. Come to think of it there’s very little obvious complaint about those who choose to come here legally, get an education at inflated cost to subsidize lower fees for the locals who tend not to avail themselves of them, then immigrate instead. Except, that is, from the older folk in those post-industrial towns, who don’t want to go anywhere they might have to speak foreign or eat anything but Sunday roast with proper British potatoes (that they bought from Aldi)… they seem to have a lot of less than obvious complaints.
  - graemep 2y ago
    > Talk to your average kid stuck in 90% of the one-time industrial towns north of London and the grass isn’t just greener… the fact they’ll never be able to afford to go doesn’t mean they wouldn’t at the drop of a hat if they could. Where could they go that is better? Lots of nice places abroad if you have money, but lot sof nice places in the UK if you have money. Have you lived in a former industrial town outside London? I have. Focusing on people there also breaks the tie to Brexit you mentioned earlier. These are the places where people voted for Brexit. its mostly people in the south who say they want to go abroad because of Brexit, especially affluent people who could if they would. > Except, that is, from the older folk in those post-industrial towns, who don’t want to go anywhere they might have to speak foreign or eat anything but Sunday roast with proper British potatoes (that they bought from Aldi) A rather bigoted view of people. I live in (an admittedly fairly prosperous) northern formerly industrial town and its friendly, has a (rather boring) Indian restaurant down the road. "Chinese chippies" are a long standing institution throughout the north west....
- stevekemp 2y ago
  While the pessimism is true it's also the case that post-Brexit it is very hard for many of them to actually leave. The lack of free movement really made it hard for a lot of UK people to move to Europe.
gadders 2y ago
>>the assumption the UK is where these people eventually want to live "In 2022, almost 73,000 former students were issued a Graduate Visa, which allows them to live and work in the UK for two years after graduation or three years for PhD graduates. Introduced in July 2021, the new route saw high take-up and led to a large increase in the number of students extending their stay in the UK. The number of students extending their stay in the UK through the Graduate route reached a record level in 2022 and continued to increase in 2023. In the year ending 30 September 2023, around 105,000 Graduate visas were granted to main applicants" >>I had to apply for a graduate degree Thanks for your anecdote. The International Students come in via foundation years not available to local students. More money for the uni, and the international students get in with lower grades. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-for...
- pjc50 2y ago
  > almost 73,000 former students were issued a Graduate Visa, which allows them to live and work in the UK for two years And what's wrong with that? These aren't overstays, they're people who've been granted visas in a perfectly above board manner.
  - gadders 2y ago
    It was in response to this up-thread: "your first assertion hinges on the assumption the UK is where these people eventually want to live, once they have that education" 73,000 want to, at least for two years.
    - yawpitch 2y ago
      Suppose I should have been clearer, perhaps that should have read “where these people eventually want to remain”, as in live for the rest of their lives, ie be immigrants instead of merely temporary expats (which should never bother a native, since they’re paying taxes during their working years without receiving benefits over their retirement years).

graemep 2y ago

> A significant number of the British don’t even want to live here, post Brexit Strangely few of them leave. There is a lot of "grass is greener" in British pessimism about their country. > neither do most of the international students I’ve met Most do not, but most never did. Most people prefer to live in their home country (especially if they are the sort that can afford overseas fees). That said they may want a degree that is recognised internationally (e.g. they get a cheaper degree that will be recognised in the US where salaries are much higher). There are also a significant proportion who do want to stay. As someone with dual nationality the UK is my preferred place to live.

yawpitch 2y ago
> Strangely few of them leave. There is a lot of "grass is greener" in British pessimism about their country. Talk to your average kid stuck in 90% of the one-time industrial towns north of London and the grass isn’t just greener… the fact they’ll never be able to afford to go doesn’t mean they wouldn’t at the drop of a hat if they could. > Most do not, but most never did There’s no obviously valid complaint about those who come here, pay international fees, maybe work a few years while paying taxes and NHS premiums, then go elsewhere or home. Come to think of it there’s very little obvious complaint about those who choose to come here legally, get an education at inflated cost to subsidize lower fees for the locals who tend not to avail themselves of them, then immigrate instead. Except, that is, from the older folk in those post-industrial towns, who don’t want to go anywhere they might have to speak foreign or eat anything but Sunday roast with proper British potatoes (that they bought from Aldi)… they seem to have a lot of less than obvious complaints.
- graemep 2y ago
  > Talk to your average kid stuck in 90% of the one-time industrial towns north of London and the grass isn’t just greener… the fact they’ll never be able to afford to go doesn’t mean they wouldn’t at the drop of a hat if they could. Where could they go that is better? Lots of nice places abroad if you have money, but lot sof nice places in the UK if you have money. Have you lived in a former industrial town outside London? I have. Focusing on people there also breaks the tie to Brexit you mentioned earlier. These are the places where people voted for Brexit. its mostly people in the south who say they want to go abroad because of Brexit, especially affluent people who could if they would. > Except, that is, from the older folk in those post-industrial towns, who don’t want to go anywhere they might have to speak foreign or eat anything but Sunday roast with proper British potatoes (that they bought from Aldi) A rather bigoted view of people. I live in (an admittedly fairly prosperous) northern formerly industrial town and its friendly, has a (rather boring) Indian restaurant down the road. "Chinese chippies" are a long standing institution throughout the north west....
stevekemp 2y ago
While the pessimism is true it's also the case that post-Brexit it is very hard for many of them to actually leave. The lack of free movement really made it hard for a lot of UK people to move to Europe.

gadders 2y ago

>>the assumption the UK is where these people eventually want to live "In 2022, almost 73,000 former students were issued a Graduate Visa, which allows them to live and work in the UK for two years after graduation or three years for PhD graduates. Introduced in July 2021, the new route saw high take-up and led to a large increase in the number of students extending their stay in the UK. The number of students extending their stay in the UK through the Graduate route reached a record level in 2022 and continued to increase in 2023. In the year ending 30 September 2023, around 105,000 Graduate visas were granted to main applicants" >>I had to apply for a graduate degree Thanks for your anecdote. The International Students come in via foundation years not available to local students. More money for the uni, and the international students get in with lower grades. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx https://www.thetimes.com/uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-for...

pjc50 2y ago
> almost 73,000 former students were issued a Graduate Visa, which allows them to live and work in the UK for two years And what's wrong with that? These aren't overstays, they're people who've been granted visas in a perfectly above board manner.
- gadders 2y ago
  It was in response to this up-thread: "your first assertion hinges on the assumption the UK is where these people eventually want to live, once they have that education" 73,000 want to, at least for two years.
  - yawpitch 2y ago
    Suppose I should have been clearer, perhaps that should have read “where these people eventually want to remain”, as in live for the rest of their lives, ie be immigrants instead of merely temporary expats (which should never bother a native, since they’re paying taxes during their working years without receiving benefits over their retirement years).