4 ms·

So because it is just "kids" on the internet it is okay to post threats of violence and death? Or it is her fault because she "demonstrated sensitivity"? Sad

So because it is just "kids" on the internet it is okay to post threats of violence and death? Or it is her fault because she "demonstrated sensitivity"? Sad that someone on HN would post this as honest analysis. No wonder this community has so few women participants. I wonder what percentage of the commenters in this thread are male.

dmix 14y ago
I kind of expected someone to reply saying I was blaming the victim when I wrote that. But if you read my comment, I'm just analyzing the motives of the raiders. The point being, it takes very little to spark them as we've seen this same type of thing happen a hundred times in the past over petty things.
- eschulte 14y ago
  In my reading of your post the thesis seemed to be "no real problem here, just internet kids being internet kids". I don't think it is helpful to gloss over the legitamately serious issue of outsized misogyny and threats against women with a presense on the internet. I think it is likely that this sort of behavior inhibits female contributors to open source software and the tech world.
  - dmix 14y ago
    If you look at the discussion that followed my comment, it was about whether the motivation of the attack was: a) misogyny of the gaming community b) the online raiding culture that has little regard for who the target is - as long as they will react to offensive language and accessible via online channels Which was the thesis of my original comment and, I believe, a valid question to ask before taking out our pitchforks.
    - kstenerud 14y ago
      I can see your point, but the sheer viciousness of the attacks in this case is beyond the pale. I've seen 4chan trolling before, but this is a very different beast. 4chan tries to get your goat, and will resort to any level of childishness to do it. But it's all done in order to make the person look foolish and laugh at them. These attacks, on the other hand, were filled with bile and hate and uncontrolled rage. Death threats are no laughing matter. Note that this is not necessarily the misogyny of the gaming community, but rather of the much wider demographic who encounter her writings. That is far more troubling.
- arbitrage 14y ago
  You are blaming the victim, though. And you seem unwilling to realize that this is what you're doing. It's akin to blaming a woman for getting raped, because "she shouldn't have been wearing that outfit". It doesn't matter that it takes very little to spark them. It's a terrible thing that people behave this way, and the fault lies solely on those who behave in this manner. You comments are demonstrating perfectly the pervasiveness of the problem.
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  - ryusage 14y ago
    I think dmix's point was just that it would be a mistake to assume that the root cause of the problem is rampant misogyny, because it's not. That's probably an issue as well, but it's not really fundamental to this attack - the real problem here is the general antisocial culture of some parts of the internet. These people find pleasure in harassing people, pure and simple. The fact she's a woman doesn't matter much - it's just the particular flavor of the attack. They'd be just as happy to go after any other obviously sensitive group of people (race, religion, gender, sexuality, emotional teens on youtube, etc). Ultimately, if we want to address these attacks, then that's the problem that needs to be fixed.
    - eschulte 14y ago
      I see what you're saying here, but I think you are exactly wrong. There are a large number of people who target others specifically because they are women, and I think it directly results in women being under-represented in some significant portions of the internet/tech world.
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dmix 14y ago

I kind of expected someone to reply saying I was blaming the victim when I wrote that. But if you read my comment, I'm just analyzing the motives of the raiders. The point being, it takes very little to spark them as we've seen this same type of thing happen a hundred times in the past over petty things.

eschulte 14y ago
In my reading of your post the thesis seemed to be "no real problem here, just internet kids being internet kids". I don't think it is helpful to gloss over the legitamately serious issue of outsized misogyny and threats against women with a presense on the internet. I think it is likely that this sort of behavior inhibits female contributors to open source software and the tech world.
- dmix 14y ago
  If you look at the discussion that followed my comment, it was about whether the motivation of the attack was: a) misogyny of the gaming community b) the online raiding culture that has little regard for who the target is - as long as they will react to offensive language and accessible via online channels Which was the thesis of my original comment and, I believe, a valid question to ask before taking out our pitchforks.
  - kstenerud 14y ago
    I can see your point, but the sheer viciousness of the attacks in this case is beyond the pale. I've seen 4chan trolling before, but this is a very different beast. 4chan tries to get your goat, and will resort to any level of childishness to do it. But it's all done in order to make the person look foolish and laugh at them. These attacks, on the other hand, were filled with bile and hate and uncontrolled rage. Death threats are no laughing matter. Note that this is not necessarily the misogyny of the gaming community, but rather of the much wider demographic who encounter her writings. That is far more troubling.
arbitrage 14y ago
You are blaming the victim, though. And you seem unwilling to realize that this is what you're doing. It's akin to blaming a woman for getting raped, because "she shouldn't have been wearing that outfit". It doesn't matter that it takes very little to spark them. It's a terrible thing that people behave this way, and the fault lies solely on those who behave in this manner. You comments are demonstrating perfectly the pervasiveness of the problem.
- deleted 14y ago
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- ryusage 14y ago
  I think dmix's point was just that it would be a mistake to assume that the root cause of the problem is rampant misogyny, because it's not. That's probably an issue as well, but it's not really fundamental to this attack - the real problem here is the general antisocial culture of some parts of the internet. These people find pleasure in harassing people, pure and simple. The fact she's a woman doesn't matter much - it's just the particular flavor of the attack. They'd be just as happy to go after any other obviously sensitive group of people (race, religion, gender, sexuality, emotional teens on youtube, etc). Ultimately, if we want to address these attacks, then that's the problem that needs to be fixed.
  - eschulte 14y ago
    I see what you're saying here, but I think you are exactly wrong. There are a large number of people who target others specifically because they are women, and I think it directly results in women being under-represented in some significant portions of the internet/tech world.
- deleted 14y ago
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