5 ms·

SpiderBasic

100 points by shakna 2y ago

ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
I'm not sure what this is, but having been forced to learn VBA related to Access databases, I've been looking for a similarly integrated solution that's a little more robust. I have yet to find one.
- peutetre 2y ago
  You could use C#: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/data-tools/connect-to-data-in-an-access-database-windows-forms?view=vs-2022 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/data-tools/co...
  - ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
    I would like to move to a better backend and front end. Local first would be good over a database server. I've been looking at flutter and sqlite but I've little experience here and am unsure about a multi user context. Access whilst old is a good technology when used correctly within its capabilities.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      Have you seen Grist? https://www.getgrist.com/ https://www.getgrist.com/ You can write custom code against those databases too.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  https://zetcode.com/db/sqlitevb/ https://zetcode.com/db/sqlitevb/
- doo_daa 2y ago
  Retool.com is the closest thing I have found to the experience of building apps with Access
  - itomato 2y ago
    Used Access but preferred Approach back in the day and Retool definitely gives me back that RAD tool vibe. As uplifting as it is, its limits make it just as easy to paint yourself into a corner.
caseyy 2y ago
Wow, we are compiling BASIC to JavaScript and which is meant to run in browsers like Electron I assume. Now someone just needs to write Electron in BASIC to close the loop! Reminds me of TranslationParty. Can we find the equilibrium between JavaScript and BASIC? :)
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Jokes aside, if you wanted to develop native applications within that framework (BASIC as implemented by Frederic Laboureur) you would use PureBasic (for Windows, Linux, Mac, Raspberry PI and, in a discontinued version I believe, Amiga). PureBasic compiled to FASM (then standard executable) up to recently - after Apple switched to ARM, a decision was made to compile to C. (It goes without saying that coding in PureBasic can be much faster than coding in C - that is the purpose.) Use of native libraries is direct. SpiderBasic was born, I guess, to use that framework on mobile devices - which can use Web based applications, if one does not want to invest the time to go native and can bear with the limitations web security imposes. I.e., rephrasing: Fred and his team had this product which worked on all main desktop platform, and at some point mobile environment became prominent: they must have thought, either we invent a way to compile to native Android and iOS, main application code and libraries, or we exploit the consolidated way of compiling into web apps. So PureBasic got flanked by SpiderBasic.
cplat 2y ago
I'm familiar with PureBasic (although didn't use it a lot). I got introduced to it in the 2000s (2000-2007 or something), along with DarkBasic, GameMaker, and the likes. In today's era, however, I have not yet found a need to use a proprietary language.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  PureBasic for Windows and Linux was released in 2000 (the Mac version is probably a little more recent, that for Amiga a bit older, and the latest for Raspberry PI is a few years old); a community got active in 2001. > In today's era In today's era it's still priceless to have a tool that * compiles to a native machine code executable; * is lean and fast - you can get results quickly and from a light efficient interface; * does pretty much anything (and in case you are missing anything in the native libraries, you can interface with external C libraries)... And (subjectively) can be a real pleasure to use.
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    That's true, but still almost no one wants to pay for that pleasure. People rather suffer day after day to save 50 bucks. Not saying purebasic is solid as I have never used it, but there are definitely times when I long back to the times when I could pay a few 100$ and get something that was batteries included and vetted without the breaking churn of people just dumping libraries online and hoping for the best.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      Please note that there are free versions, with code size as a limitation. One can test if it is worth it, maybe upgrade if the need arises for bigger projects: https://www.purebasic.com/download.php https://www.purebasic.com/download.php https://www.spiderbasic.com/download.php https://www.spiderbasic.com/download.php
  - cplat 2y ago
    Yes, which is why the rest of my sentence is important. I said, “I haven’t found a need to use a proprietary language.” I didn’t claim that one will never be needed by anyone. :-)
joshstrange 2y ago
I have no clue who this is for but the red flags are popping up all over the place for me. First page is incredibly flowery about what it is, to the point I still have no freaking clue what this is. Is it JS? Is it BASIC? Not clear at all. Then I clicked the menu to see the docs and was surprised to see a “Pricing” tab “Uh, what? A paid language/transpiler? Immediate no”. I started looking for docs and couldn’t find them, finally found them linked at the bottom of the Support page… Obviously that’s where it’d be… Lastly the docs are hot garbage. A page of links to single pages without navigation to the rest of the docs. What year is it? Oh and “Getting Started”? Yeah, it talks about their custom IDE, and that’s the final nail in the coffin (that was already pretty sealed up).
- mdp2021 2y ago
  > I still have no freaking clue what this is. Is it JS? Is it BASIC? > (Website:) SpiderBasic is new web client-side programming language based on established BASIC rules. Its allows development of very complex, windowed based web applications, including mobile app for iOS and Android [...] SpiderBasic is a compiler which generates optimized JavaScript It is a BASIC based language (and tools - e.g. an IDE, if you wish) that compiles into Javascript. «windowed based web applications»: since the original PureBasic, the language and tools that compiled to native executables, (also) allowed to build windowed applications (complete original GUIs), SpiderBasic, the product in the same family for the Web, also allows to have windows and desktop-like controls in a webpage (optionally). > the docs ... a page of links to single pages without navigation to the rest of the docs ??? The online documentation is hypertextual, each page linking to the relevant other pages - as it should be. In real practice, documentation is directly accessible from the IDE (optional but a real asset).
  - msla 2y ago
    > It is a BASIC based language By which they mean Object Pascal, but I suppose expecting a line-number BASIC these days is a bit much.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
peutetre 2y ago
From JavaScript's announcement 29 years ago (https://web.archive.org/web/20070916144913/http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease67.html https://web.archive.org/web/20070916144913/http://wp.netscap...): > JavaScript is analogous to Visual Basic in that it can be used by people with little or no programming experience to quickly construct complex applications. They meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When JavaScript left Basic it was but the learner. Now, it is the master. But JavaScript is only a master of evil. It can't win. WebAssembly shall become more powerful than JavaScript can possibly imagine.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  We just write WebAssembly in JavaScript.
pcdoodle 2y ago
Playing with this now. It's got auto complete and some cool built in examples. Would this let me make a PWA that can install to home screen on iOS? EDIT: looked through the forums and it's been asked about but doesn't appear to be implemented. Bummer. I see potential here though. There's loads of examples and they're easy to run and inspect. I would glady pay for this if it could build PWAs, this would let the apps run offline on iOS.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  You have in the IDE a "Compiler > Create App" menu, that brings you to a tabbed interface: "Web App | iOS | Android". Creating a Web App produces an HTML file, JS file and libraries directory; creating an Android APK requires Apache Cordoba (and Windows, currently); the "iOS" interface could get you close to the result (though I do not know if it follows the PWA idea closely, i.e. including manifest and service worker). Have you tried it?
JohnDeHope 2y ago
I taught high school programming for one year, and used PureBasic as the in-class language. The kids were able to put together games and such things after just a few days. We never really hit the ceiling. The real gem was the IDE experience, built in help, etc. That made everything so much easier.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  > We never really hit the ceiling The ceiling? I coded a Neural Networks engine in PureBasic! :D (And much, much, much much more.) There's really no ceiling to hit.
Freebytes 2y ago
In the past, BASIC was certainly the easiest programming language to use, but ironically, many newer programming languages are now actually easier to learn. Yes, BASIC is easy, but Python, PHP, and C# are actually just as easy as the old syntax when it comes to web based solutions.
- ddgflorida 2y ago
  I'd definitely recommend Python to newbies over any other language.
  - musicale 2y ago
    Something that languages like Visual BASIC or SpiderBasic get right is including an opinionated GUI toolkit which is well integrated with the language and straightforward to use. Less flexibility than Python or JavaScript, but standardized, relatively easy to use, and always there by default.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  I don't think the idea behind PureBasic and SpiderBasic was simplicity. (One alluring property of PureBasic has been the ability to do inline ASM... But in a speedy production environment.) It's proably more like "there was a time in which computers were shipped with their own programming language, and it was BASIC (interfaced to ROM and machine code)". So, it's "BASIC as the fundamental coding tool your computer should have been shipped with".
- lproven 2y ago
  > Python, PHP, and C# are actually just as easy as the old syntax I'd really dispute that. I've never looked at C# but no member of the C or greater curly-braces family is genuinely easy. It's just familiarity. Python is a mess in places because the C libraries underneath show through. This ugly mess: https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style-string-formatting https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style... PHP is an ugly mess from "Hello, world" on up.
appstorelottery 2y ago
Wow. Reading all the comments; makes me feel the grey on my beard. I'm obviously the target market for this; I touched PureBasic in 2002 and was super-impressed by its performance in 2D graphics on the MAC. So it touches my nostalgia to see the simplicity of its command set in producing multi-window GUI apps in the browser. It's so interesting to see fellows on here that have no idea what they are looking at, or why it's cool. It's a very niche market I think, and this is what makes it a pity. Back in the day we had BASIC on power up on 8-bit home computers, that's what many of us greybeards learned to code on when we were 10 years old. (And a source of shame in the mid-90's - basic programmers were lamers, ASM coders were cool)... It's nice that you young folk never had to learn assembly to be elite ;-)
rkagerer 2y ago
Does it have breakpoints and step-by-step debugging? (I'm on mobile and can't see the full screen)

100 points by shakna 2y ago

I'm not sure what this is, but having been forced to learn VBA related to Access databases, I've been looking for a similarly integrated solution that's a little more robust. I have yet to find one.

peutetre 2y ago
You could use C#: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/data-tools/connect-to-data-in-an-access-database-windows-forms?view=vs-2022 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/data-tools/co...
- ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
  I would like to move to a better backend and front end. Local first would be good over a database server. I've been looking at flutter and sqlite but I've little experience here and am unsure about a multi user context. Access whilst old is a good technology when used correctly within its capabilities.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Have you seen Grist? https://www.getgrist.com/ https://www.getgrist.com/ You can write custom code against those databases too.
ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
https://zetcode.com/db/sqlitevb/ https://zetcode.com/db/sqlitevb/
doo_daa 2y ago
Retool.com is the closest thing I have found to the experience of building apps with Access
- itomato 2y ago
  Used Access but preferred Approach back in the day and Retool definitely gives me back that RAD tool vibe. As uplifting as it is, its limits make it just as easy to paint yourself into a corner.

caseyy 2y ago

Wow, we are compiling BASIC to JavaScript and which is meant to run in browsers like Electron I assume. Now someone just needs to write Electron in BASIC to close the loop! Reminds me of TranslationParty. Can we find the equilibrium between JavaScript and BASIC? :)

mdp2021 2y ago
Jokes aside, if you wanted to develop native applications within that framework (BASIC as implemented by Frederic Laboureur) you would use PureBasic (for Windows, Linux, Mac, Raspberry PI and, in a discontinued version I believe, Amiga). PureBasic compiled to FASM (then standard executable) up to recently - after Apple switched to ARM, a decision was made to compile to C. (It goes without saying that coding in PureBasic can be much faster than coding in C - that is the purpose.) Use of native libraries is direct. SpiderBasic was born, I guess, to use that framework on mobile devices - which can use Web based applications, if one does not want to invest the time to go native and can bear with the limitations web security imposes. I.e., rephrasing: Fred and his team had this product which worked on all main desktop platform, and at some point mobile environment became prominent: they must have thought, either we invent a way to compile to native Android and iOS, main application code and libraries, or we exploit the consolidated way of compiling into web apps. So PureBasic got flanked by SpiderBasic.

cplat 2y ago

I'm familiar with PureBasic (although didn't use it a lot). I got introduced to it in the 2000s (2000-2007 or something), along with DarkBasic, GameMaker, and the likes. In today's era, however, I have not yet found a need to use a proprietary language.

mdp2021 2y ago
PureBasic for Windows and Linux was released in 2000 (the Mac version is probably a little more recent, that for Amiga a bit older, and the latest for Raspberry PI is a few years old); a community got active in 2001. > In today's era In today's era it's still priceless to have a tool that * compiles to a native machine code executable; * is lean and fast - you can get results quickly and from a light efficient interface; * does pretty much anything (and in case you are missing anything in the native libraries, you can interface with external C libraries)... And (subjectively) can be a real pleasure to use.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  That's true, but still almost no one wants to pay for that pleasure. People rather suffer day after day to save 50 bucks. Not saying purebasic is solid as I have never used it, but there are definitely times when I long back to the times when I could pay a few 100$ and get something that was batteries included and vetted without the breaking churn of people just dumping libraries online and hoping for the best.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Please note that there are free versions, with code size as a limitation. One can test if it is worth it, maybe upgrade if the need arises for bigger projects: https://www.purebasic.com/download.php https://www.purebasic.com/download.php https://www.spiderbasic.com/download.php https://www.spiderbasic.com/download.php
- cplat 2y ago
  Yes, which is why the rest of my sentence is important. I said, “I haven’t found a need to use a proprietary language.” I didn’t claim that one will never be needed by anyone. :-)

joshstrange 2y ago

I have no clue who this is for but the red flags are popping up all over the place for me. First page is incredibly flowery about what it is, to the point I still have no freaking clue what this is. Is it JS? Is it BASIC? Not clear at all. Then I clicked the menu to see the docs and was surprised to see a “Pricing” tab “Uh, what? A paid language/transpiler? Immediate no”. I started looking for docs and couldn’t find them, finally found them linked at the bottom of the Support page… Obviously that’s where it’d be… Lastly the docs are hot garbage. A page of links to single pages without navigation to the rest of the docs. What year is it? Oh and “Getting Started”? Yeah, it talks about their custom IDE, and that’s the final nail in the coffin (that was already pretty sealed up).

mdp2021 2y ago
> I still have no freaking clue what this is. Is it JS? Is it BASIC? > (Website:) SpiderBasic is new web client-side programming language based on established BASIC rules. Its allows development of very complex, windowed based web applications, including mobile app for iOS and Android [...] SpiderBasic is a compiler which generates optimized JavaScript It is a BASIC based language (and tools - e.g. an IDE, if you wish) that compiles into Javascript. «windowed based web applications»: since the original PureBasic, the language and tools that compiled to native executables, (also) allowed to build windowed applications (complete original GUIs), SpiderBasic, the product in the same family for the Web, also allows to have windows and desktop-like controls in a webpage (optionally). > the docs ... a page of links to single pages without navigation to the rest of the docs ??? The online documentation is hypertextual, each page linking to the relevant other pages - as it should be. In real practice, documentation is directly accessible from the IDE (optional but a real asset).
- msla 2y ago
  > It is a BASIC based language By which they mean Object Pascal, but I suppose expecting a line-number BASIC these days is a bit much.
  - mdp2021 2y ago

peutetre 2y ago

From JavaScript's announcement 29 years ago (https://web.archive.org/web/20070916144913/http://wp.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease67.html https://web.archive.org/web/20070916144913/http://wp.netscap...): > JavaScript is analogous to Visual Basic in that it can be used by people with little or no programming experience to quickly construct complex applications. They meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When JavaScript left Basic it was but the learner. Now, it is the master. But JavaScript is only a master of evil. It can't win. WebAssembly shall become more powerful than JavaScript can possibly imagine.

rad_gruchalski 2y ago
We just write WebAssembly in JavaScript.

pcdoodle 2y ago

Playing with this now. It's got auto complete and some cool built in examples. Would this let me make a PWA that can install to home screen on iOS? EDIT: looked through the forums and it's been asked about but doesn't appear to be implemented. Bummer. I see potential here though. There's loads of examples and they're easy to run and inspect. I would glady pay for this if it could build PWAs, this would let the apps run offline on iOS.

mdp2021 2y ago
You have in the IDE a "Compiler > Create App" menu, that brings you to a tabbed interface: "Web App | iOS | Android". Creating a Web App produces an HTML file, JS file and libraries directory; creating an Android APK requires Apache Cordoba (and Windows, currently); the "iOS" interface could get you close to the result (though I do not know if it follows the PWA idea closely, i.e. including manifest and service worker). Have you tried it?

JohnDeHope 2y ago

I taught high school programming for one year, and used PureBasic as the in-class language. The kids were able to put together games and such things after just a few days. We never really hit the ceiling. The real gem was the IDE experience, built in help, etc. That made everything so much easier.

mdp2021 2y ago
> We never really hit the ceiling The ceiling? I coded a Neural Networks engine in PureBasic! :D (And much, much, much much more.) There's really no ceiling to hit.

Freebytes 2y ago

In the past, BASIC was certainly the easiest programming language to use, but ironically, many newer programming languages are now actually easier to learn. Yes, BASIC is easy, but Python, PHP, and C# are actually just as easy as the old syntax when it comes to web based solutions.

ddgflorida 2y ago
I'd definitely recommend Python to newbies over any other language.
- musicale 2y ago
  Something that languages like Visual BASIC or SpiderBasic get right is including an opinionated GUI toolkit which is well integrated with the language and straightforward to use. Less flexibility than Python or JavaScript, but standardized, relatively easy to use, and always there by default.
mdp2021 2y ago
I don't think the idea behind PureBasic and SpiderBasic was simplicity. (One alluring property of PureBasic has been the ability to do inline ASM... But in a speedy production environment.) It's proably more like "there was a time in which computers were shipped with their own programming language, and it was BASIC (interfaced to ROM and machine code)". So, it's "BASIC as the fundamental coding tool your computer should have been shipped with".
lproven 2y ago
> Python, PHP, and C# are actually just as easy as the old syntax I'd really dispute that. I've never looked at C# but no member of the C or greater curly-braces family is genuinely easy. It's just familiarity. Python is a mess in places because the C libraries underneath show through. This ugly mess: https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style-string-formatting https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#printf-style... PHP is an ugly mess from "Hello, world" on up.

appstorelottery 2y ago

Wow. Reading all the comments; makes me feel the grey on my beard. I'm obviously the target market for this; I touched PureBasic in 2002 and was super-impressed by its performance in 2D graphics on the MAC. So it touches my nostalgia to see the simplicity of its command set in producing multi-window GUI apps in the browser. It's so interesting to see fellows on here that have no idea what they are looking at, or why it's cool. It's a very niche market I think, and this is what makes it a pity. Back in the day we had BASIC on power up on 8-bit home computers, that's what many of us greybeards learned to code on when we were 10 years old. (And a source of shame in the mid-90's - basic programmers were lamers, ASM coders were cool)... It's nice that you young folk never had to learn assembly to be elite ;-)

rkagerer 2y ago

Does it have breakpoints and step-by-step debugging? (I'm on mobile and can't see the full screen)