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There is nothing wrong with calling out misogyny in media. Intense and reasonable criticism is part of every healthy society. You might have a point if she want

There is nothing wrong with calling out misogyny in media. Intense and reasonable criticism is part of every healthy society. You might have a point if she wanted to ban or censor games – but she does not. Gamers and game developers don’t have a right to not be criticized. Furthermore, games are a huge business and everyone is playing them. They are not some obscure thing that can be ignored. They are pretty central in our society, just ignoring them is not an option. Like racist media before it, misogynist games will have to face the criticism.

tomjen3 14y ago
Define face the criticism. If you mean take her serious or change their behaviour, then no, they don't have to. They don't even have to listen to her, for the same reason I don't listen to priests who tell me I go to hell for being a sinner. If you mean they have to accept that she has the right to speak her mind, then yes, but so does does who disagree with her. It is either freedom of speech or no freedom of speech.
WayneDB 14y ago
There is nothing wrong with calling out misogyny in media. There is also nothing wrong with people making fun of other people when they feel like it. It happens every day. You might have a point if she wanted to ban or censor games – but she does not. What was his point though? He said "I find the more extreme reactions and death threats disappointing and sad, but do not feel a lot of sympathy for such a person." Would you feel sympathy for someone who has studied poisonous snakes but then got hurt because they dove into a pile of them? Gamers and game developers don’t have a right to not be criticized. Neither does this woman. Furthermore, games are a huge business and everyone is playing them. They are not some obscure thing that can be ignored. They are pretty central in our society, just ignoring them is not an option. Like racist media before it, misogynist games will have to face the criticism. So what? You can't get away from Football, Baseball or Hockey either (well, maybe Hockey :) ... Plenty of women are into sports and don't have a big problem with the fact that all the players are men. They also don't have a problem with all of the misogynistic men who follow sports. The problem that will never be solved is that someone will always get offended at something and I'd rather see people thicken up in order to deal with that instead of crying foul.
- mkaltenecker 14y ago
  Misogyny in sports is also a problem that has to be called out. Why do you assume that it isn’t? Sports are at least a bit more progressive in this respect that video games, though. Also, the thing is that some of society’s behavior warrant change. That was and is the case with racism. That was and is the case with misogyny. Changing things means calling them out and protesting against them. Even if you might be able to ignore some of it instead if you really wanted to. Your assumption is that misogyny in video games is as valid a viewpoint as being against that. That’s your judgement to make but don’t wonder when people say you are wrong.
  - WayneDB 14y ago
    Call it out all you want. That's not going to change people.
    - mkaltenecker 14y ago
      I was convinced to become an atheist by people calling out other people. I was convinced to become a feminist by people calling out other people. I know it’s an anecdote. I know from communication research that changes in opinion don’t really happen all that often in the real world, especially not in response to the media. But in the end I can say that I was personally changed by people calling out things. I think it’s a valuable thing to do. The world would be a very sad place if it were impossible to change people with argument. And if not this generation then the next one.
- king_jester 14y ago
  > There is also nothing wrong with people making fun of other people when they feel like it. It happens every day. This incident went way beyond humor and ribbing, although I guess you find death threats and stalking hilarious. > Neither does this woman. There is a big difference for having some criticism about someone's points of view and engaging in a harassment campaign. That you equate the two is troubling. > Plenty of women are into sports and don't have a big problem with the fact that all the players are men. They also don't have a problem with all of the misogynistic men who follow sports. Women in sports is a huge issue and still is. There are also quite a lot of people who are troubled by the misogyny that permeates professional sports. Saying that these people don't exist just because you aren't paying attention is ridiculous. > The problem that will never be solved is that someone will always get offended at something and I'd rather see people thicken up in order to deal with that instead of crying foul. The best way to guarantee sexism is never addressed is to not talk about it. The Kickstarter project was about an examination of an issue, not a world-wide solution. That you make it about that is an attempt to move the goal posts.

tomjen3 14y ago

Define face the criticism. If you mean take her serious or change their behaviour, then no, they don't have to. They don't even have to listen to her, for the same reason I don't listen to priests who tell me I go to hell for being a sinner. If you mean they have to accept that she has the right to speak her mind, then yes, but so does does who disagree with her. It is either freedom of speech or no freedom of speech.

WayneDB 14y ago

There is nothing wrong with calling out misogyny in media. There is also nothing wrong with people making fun of other people when they feel like it. It happens every day. You might have a point if she wanted to ban or censor games – but she does not. What was his point though? He said "I find the more extreme reactions and death threats disappointing and sad, but do not feel a lot of sympathy for such a person." Would you feel sympathy for someone who has studied poisonous snakes but then got hurt because they dove into a pile of them? Gamers and game developers don’t have a right to not be criticized. Neither does this woman. Furthermore, games are a huge business and everyone is playing them. They are not some obscure thing that can be ignored. They are pretty central in our society, just ignoring them is not an option. Like racist media before it, misogynist games will have to face the criticism. So what? You can't get away from Football, Baseball or Hockey either (well, maybe Hockey :) ... Plenty of women are into sports and don't have a big problem with the fact that all the players are men. They also don't have a problem with all of the misogynistic men who follow sports. The problem that will never be solved is that someone will always get offended at something and I'd rather see people thicken up in order to deal with that instead of crying foul.

mkaltenecker 14y ago
Misogyny in sports is also a problem that has to be called out. Why do you assume that it isn’t? Sports are at least a bit more progressive in this respect that video games, though. Also, the thing is that some of society’s behavior warrant change. That was and is the case with racism. That was and is the case with misogyny. Changing things means calling them out and protesting against them. Even if you might be able to ignore some of it instead if you really wanted to. Your assumption is that misogyny in video games is as valid a viewpoint as being against that. That’s your judgement to make but don’t wonder when people say you are wrong.
- WayneDB 14y ago
  Call it out all you want. That's not going to change people.
  - mkaltenecker 14y ago
    I was convinced to become an atheist by people calling out other people. I was convinced to become a feminist by people calling out other people. I know it’s an anecdote. I know from communication research that changes in opinion don’t really happen all that often in the real world, especially not in response to the media. But in the end I can say that I was personally changed by people calling out things. I think it’s a valuable thing to do. The world would be a very sad place if it were impossible to change people with argument. And if not this generation then the next one.
king_jester 14y ago
> There is also nothing wrong with people making fun of other people when they feel like it. It happens every day. This incident went way beyond humor and ribbing, although I guess you find death threats and stalking hilarious. > Neither does this woman. There is a big difference for having some criticism about someone's points of view and engaging in a harassment campaign. That you equate the two is troubling. > Plenty of women are into sports and don't have a big problem with the fact that all the players are men. They also don't have a problem with all of the misogynistic men who follow sports. Women in sports is a huge issue and still is. There are also quite a lot of people who are troubled by the misogyny that permeates professional sports. Saying that these people don't exist just because you aren't paying attention is ridiculous. > The problem that will never be solved is that someone will always get offended at something and I'd rather see people thicken up in order to deal with that instead of crying foul. The best way to guarantee sexism is never addressed is to not talk about it. The Kickstarter project was about an examination of an issue, not a world-wide solution. That you make it about that is an attempt to move the goal posts.