4 ms·

> Now, if all the landlords in an entire city or community is using RealPage, then it should be illegal. Exactly this is the monopoly that people are worried a

> Now, if all the landlords in an entire city or community is using RealPage, then it should be illegal. Exactly this is the monopoly that people are worried about and why there is strong push back.

aurareturn 2y ago
Do we have data on what % of rental units in San Francisco uses RealPage? I'm a landlord myself and have never used RealPage or any software to help me price. I simply look at a few comparables, gauge the quality of my apartment vs theirs, and set a price. I can understand if some landlords don't have this skill or time and would rather let a 3rd party help them set a price. As far as I know, RealPage is more for very large landlords that own many units. Most San Francisco landlords are mom and pop.
- AstralStorm 2y ago
  So you only collude tacitly instead of trying to compete. It makes no difference. If 1 in 5 landlords use this software and 4 in 5 look at their prices, the situation is identical to one where all of them would use this software. And here we find the true issue: free markets are a lie and collusion is a fact of life in capitalism. For the actual competition to work, the prices would have to be quite secret yet consistent and independent of the buyer. Quite tricky combination to pull off.
  - aurareturn 2y ago
    There is a huge difference between 1/5 and 4/5 using RealPage. If RealPage sets your price at $1,000 but 4/5 sets it at $950. Your apartment is at a disadvantage. One extra month of vacancy will make any higher rental price you set evaporate. Renters will have plenty of options. 1/5 won't make much of a difference, if any. But if 4/5, that's a huge impact. Now suddenly, 4/5 apartments are $1,000. The lone $950 apartment will get rented out fast but everyone else will have to pay $1,000.
    - piva00 2y ago
      If RealPage is used by 1/5 and sets a price at $1,000 then there's a new higher anchor price that the other 4/5 not using it will look at and think "I could make it this high", the first few apartments at $1,000 will have a disadvantage but by creating a higher anchoring point the prices will gravitate towards that. The more people setting it at $1,000 because they see a few listings at that price will move the price point towards it. The impact will exist nonetheless, the only thing that a higher proportion using RealPage will do is to move the price point faster towards that price. New construction can tame prices but apart from huge financial crises I've never seen housing prices be steady or fall, those moments are fleeting. Unless construction outpaces demand for a long while the prices won't budge, developers want to sell it for as high as possible, they won't build if prices are constantly falling. We are stuck.
      - AstralStorm 2y ago
        Additionally the banks do not want to use negative credit rates ever, or any effectively close to zero. Therefore if prices for building the houses are too high, they cannot bring them down. What they can only do is repossess, and that cannot bring the price down by much either. The situation is further complicated for the costs incurred for the maintenance of the buildings and general land tax - but that should theoretically push developers to make condos. But even those are getting too expensive.
      - aurareturn 2y ago
        If RealPage is used by 1/5 and sets a price at $1,000 then there's a new higher anchor price that the other 4/5 not using it will look at and think "I could make it this high", the first few apartments at $1,000 will have a disadvantage but by creating a higher anchoring point the prices will gravitate towards that. The more people setting it at $1,000 because they see a few listings at that price will move the price point towards it. Why would the anchor be $1,000? It's supply and demand after all. The $1,000 apartment would just sit there and miss out on a month of rent or not get rented at all. But if enough of the market (4/5) uses RealPage and refuses to lower the price, then it is collusion. 1/5 is hardly a problem. The 4/5 will get rented first. The 1/5 might lower the price eventually or risk not getting rented at all.
- cam_l 2y ago
  Most landlords only own one or two properties, but most properties are owned by people with more than 3. Both these things can be true. And it can also be true that though most properties are not run through such a system, only a very small number of properties are available at a particular time. And if such a system encourages more churn, then a much greater percentage of such properties would be available at any time, than the average. An effective monopoly could conceivably be maintained even if they only represented a fraction of the total market.

> Now, if all the landlords in an entire city or community is using RealPage, then it should be illegal. Exactly this is the monopoly that people are worried about and why there is strong push back.

aurareturn 2y ago

Do we have data on what % of rental units in San Francisco uses RealPage? I'm a landlord myself and have never used RealPage or any software to help me price. I simply look at a few comparables, gauge the quality of my apartment vs theirs, and set a price. I can understand if some landlords don't have this skill or time and would rather let a 3rd party help them set a price. As far as I know, RealPage is more for very large landlords that own many units. Most San Francisco landlords are mom and pop.

AstralStorm 2y ago
So you only collude tacitly instead of trying to compete. It makes no difference. If 1 in 5 landlords use this software and 4 in 5 look at their prices, the situation is identical to one where all of them would use this software. And here we find the true issue: free markets are a lie and collusion is a fact of life in capitalism. For the actual competition to work, the prices would have to be quite secret yet consistent and independent of the buyer. Quite tricky combination to pull off.
- aurareturn 2y ago
  There is a huge difference between 1/5 and 4/5 using RealPage. If RealPage sets your price at $1,000 but 4/5 sets it at $950. Your apartment is at a disadvantage. One extra month of vacancy will make any higher rental price you set evaporate. Renters will have plenty of options. 1/5 won't make much of a difference, if any. But if 4/5, that's a huge impact. Now suddenly, 4/5 apartments are $1,000. The lone $950 apartment will get rented out fast but everyone else will have to pay $1,000.
  - piva00 2y ago
    If RealPage is used by 1/5 and sets a price at $1,000 then there's a new higher anchor price that the other 4/5 not using it will look at and think "I could make it this high", the first few apartments at $1,000 will have a disadvantage but by creating a higher anchoring point the prices will gravitate towards that. The more people setting it at $1,000 because they see a few listings at that price will move the price point towards it. The impact will exist nonetheless, the only thing that a higher proportion using RealPage will do is to move the price point faster towards that price. New construction can tame prices but apart from huge financial crises I've never seen housing prices be steady or fall, those moments are fleeting. Unless construction outpaces demand for a long while the prices won't budge, developers want to sell it for as high as possible, they won't build if prices are constantly falling. We are stuck.
    - AstralStorm 2y ago
      Additionally the banks do not want to use negative credit rates ever, or any effectively close to zero. Therefore if prices for building the houses are too high, they cannot bring them down. What they can only do is repossess, and that cannot bring the price down by much either. The situation is further complicated for the costs incurred for the maintenance of the buildings and general land tax - but that should theoretically push developers to make condos. But even those are getting too expensive.
    - aurareturn 2y ago
      If RealPage is used by 1/5 and sets a price at $1,000 then there's a new higher anchor price that the other 4/5 not using it will look at and think "I could make it this high", the first few apartments at $1,000 will have a disadvantage but by creating a higher anchoring point the prices will gravitate towards that. The more people setting it at $1,000 because they see a few listings at that price will move the price point towards it. Why would the anchor be $1,000? It's supply and demand after all. The $1,000 apartment would just sit there and miss out on a month of rent or not get rented at all. But if enough of the market (4/5) uses RealPage and refuses to lower the price, then it is collusion. 1/5 is hardly a problem. The 4/5 will get rented first. The 1/5 might lower the price eventually or risk not getting rented at all.
cam_l 2y ago
Most landlords only own one or two properties, but most properties are owned by people with more than 3. Both these things can be true. And it can also be true that though most properties are not run through such a system, only a very small number of properties are available at a particular time. And if such a system encourages more churn, then a much greater percentage of such properties would be available at any time, than the average. An effective monopoly could conceivably be maintained even if they only represented a fraction of the total market.