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>This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. I don't even ask. If it looks like a

>This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. I don't even ask. If it looks like a tip and is computed like a tip, it is one. How the owners and workers hash out their payment structure is none of my business as a customer.

Gud 2y ago
So why tip at all? Seems extremely arcane to me
MrHamburger 2y ago
Then it should not be a tip, but part of the price?
JohnFen 2y ago
If I'm tipping, my intention is that the money goes to the workers, not the establishment -- so it is my business as a customer. A tip is a gift, and I want to know that the gift is going to who I intend for it to go to.
- the_snooze 2y ago
  I think the "gift" idea breaks down in practice when tips have become common and expected, instead of rare and meaningful. It leads to moral hazard where the establishment rationally gives up its responsibility of paying its hired staff. "Tips as gifts" does work in situations where there is no establishment. For example, musicians on the street with a tip jar.
eappleby 2y ago
I spoke with a restaurant owner who explained to me the purpose of the "service fees" that may look like tips, but don't actually go to the waiters. The reason they do that is that some restaurants want to pay their non-wait staff more, without also needing to increase the pay for their wait staff. Since the "service fees" aren't included when calculating the tips, this allows restaurants to direct those extra funds exactly where they need without unnecessarily inflating the overall cost of the meal. I 100% agree that tips should be abolished and consumers should pay a clear and fixed price for goods and services, but if you accept that that is not an option, then "service fees" actually make sense. That being said, I can understand the ire that they may cause the wait staff, since many consumers may think those "service fees" are tips, and as a result, may not receive anything for their work. No great solutions here

Gud 2y ago

So why tip at all? Seems extremely arcane to me

MrHamburger 2y ago

Then it should not be a tip, but part of the price?

JohnFen 2y ago

If I'm tipping, my intention is that the money goes to the workers, not the establishment -- so it is my business as a customer. A tip is a gift, and I want to know that the gift is going to who I intend for it to go to.

the_snooze 2y ago
I think the "gift" idea breaks down in practice when tips have become common and expected, instead of rare and meaningful. It leads to moral hazard where the establishment rationally gives up its responsibility of paying its hired staff. "Tips as gifts" does work in situations where there is no establishment. For example, musicians on the street with a tip jar.

eappleby 2y ago

I spoke with a restaurant owner who explained to me the purpose of the "service fees" that may look like tips, but don't actually go to the waiters. The reason they do that is that some restaurants want to pay their non-wait staff more, without also needing to increase the pay for their wait staff. Since the "service fees" aren't included when calculating the tips, this allows restaurants to direct those extra funds exactly where they need without unnecessarily inflating the overall cost of the meal. I 100% agree that tips should be abolished and consumers should pay a clear and fixed price for goods and services, but if you accept that that is not an option, then "service fees" actually make sense. That being said, I can understand the ire that they may cause the wait staff, since many consumers may think those "service fees" are tips, and as a result, may not receive anything for their work. No great solutions here