5 ms·

If it's a masterclass in anything, it's proven to be a low-risk, revenue-generating productization formula with options that I've noticed Tor has leaned heavily

If it's a masterclass in anything, it's proven to be a low-risk, revenue-generating productization formula with options that I've noticed Tor has leaned heavily into for roughly the past decade, e.g. Seanan McGuire, Becky Chambers, Ursula Vernon, Nghi Vo.

acdha 2y ago
Do they have any male authors you describe that way?
- mercutio2 2y ago
  [not the original person you asked the question of] I cannot stand Becky Chambers. I've tried to read her three times, and after about 20 pages I give up. Of the thousand or so novels I've read in the last 20 years, I've done that with about 5 books. One of my friends asked my why I was so vituperative about Becky Chambers. I said it was just so bad. They pointed out that I really, really sounded like I was channeling the "I am a man and I really want everyone's favorite things to be what men like in Sci Fi" trope. I don't think this is accurate! I like all sorts of feminist sci-fi. But I loath characters who sit around and don't do anything much while some low-stakes activity is happening and there's a bunch of angst that strikes me as unimportant whining not driving any plot. So, fair enough, I have only encountered that style of writing from female authors. But I don't think it's a particularly damning individual preference. I happened to love Murderbot (and A Memory Called Empire), though, per the original point of discussion for this post.
  - jccalhoun 2y ago
    I've read a couple of Chambers' books and found them entertaining but I was frustrated that the books didn't go about answering the big questions that seemed to be at the heart of the world. I really liked A Psalm for the Wild-Built but was hoping to learn more about the robots but then the second one came out and it was a lot of shallow philosophizing on the meaning of life that was more aimed at a level for YA books. There's nothing wrong with YA novels but that's not what I was looking for.
  - acdha 2y ago
    Yeah, I’m not saying it’s mandatory to like all of Tor’s authors but it seemed somewhat unlikely that the entire list would be female. I consider Chambers a comfort read, but I wouldn’t say she has all that much in common with, say, Ursula Vernon or Nghi Vo.
  - whaaaaat 2y ago
    I absolutely adore Becky Chambers (and Murderbot, incidentally), but I also love low stakes sci-fi. I want more stories about people just... living unremarkable lives in remarkable places. Like, I don't need to read about Batman, but reading about the guy who runs the bodega in Gotham City? Yum yum yum, that's absolutely food for me. I describe Chambers to others as "cozy" sci-fi. That said, I think her different works hit differently. The Monk and Robot series is a really poignant pair of novellas about what it means to be human in a solarpunk world. The Wayfarer series (Long Way to a Small Angry Planet) is slice of life stories of people caught in awkward situations around space. It's like, "What are people on the fringes doing in Star Trek -- not Picard types, but like, construction crews or black market dealers or space communists or people who get stuck at a motel because the highway shuts down. What if Firefly was a little less high energy. I disagree with your assessments a little, but not enough to make a fuss. I think it's absolutely fair to say, "This wasn't to my taste". That said, I'm also queer, poly, and use neopronouns, so I think I may be primed for science fiction that takes the transhumanism language and explores those topics in ways that doesn't treat those topics are scandalous or shocking.
- lmm 2y ago
  Have they pushed any male authors in that time period? There's a Tor-centric blog network that is pretty explicitly doing affirmative action style promotion of women and minority ethnic group authors. "Safe, media-conglomerate friendly DEI SF" is practically Tor's brand at this point. I'd put e.g. James A Corey in the same bucket (though I can't remember what proportion of them is actually male?) but I honestly can't think of any new male authors from Tor over that period. (They're Cixin Liu's US publisher so you might count him, but he's bad in so many different ways that I don't know I'd put him in the same category). And even beyond publishers, few of the authors being pushed by newspapers/Goodreads/etc. seem to be male.
- metaphor 2y ago
  Take a look at the Hugo Novella shortlist authors associated with Tor from 2016 to present[1]. I poke at this specifically because Hugo shortlist authors---with the lesser Novella Award serving as gateway---tend to generate exceptional sales figures relative to their peers, and Tor authors have had a statistically overwhelming shortlist presence over the past decade. Filtering on non-female authors: - Dexter Gabriel (P. Djeli Clark) wrote three unrelated novellas, all of which were shortlisted. The Haunting of Tram Car 015 was a warmup to his Nebula-winning novel A Master of Djinn. Arguably the most notable example, but doesn't quite fit the implicit business strategy I was alluding to...more like take random novella shots and further develop the thing that sticks, as opposed to committing two novellas to a strategic theme while reserving the option to follow up. - Victor LaValle got a lot of attention across the board with his novella nomination, but jumped ship to a Penguin Random House imprint for his breakout novel The Changeling that was produced into a television series for Apple TV+. - Kai Ashante Wilson wrote two related LGBT romantasy novellas; one was shortlisted. Sales clearly just wasn't there. - Daniel Polansky...doesn't have a wiki page. Nomination was for a single standalone fantasy novella. - Neon Yang and Nino Cipri identify as "they". Both were nominated for LGBT fantasy novellas; the former's Tensorate appears to have hit better sales metrics relative to the latter's LitenVerse. - Adrian Tchaikovsky was already a reputable science fiction author riding on laurels, so doesn't fit the implicit business strategy; his nomination struck me as more "traditional". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Award_for_Best_Novella#Winners_and_nominees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Award_for_Best_Novella#Wi...

acdha 2y ago

Do they have any male authors you describe that way?

mercutio2 2y ago
[not the original person you asked the question of] I cannot stand Becky Chambers. I've tried to read her three times, and after about 20 pages I give up. Of the thousand or so novels I've read in the last 20 years, I've done that with about 5 books. One of my friends asked my why I was so vituperative about Becky Chambers. I said it was just so bad. They pointed out that I really, really sounded like I was channeling the "I am a man and I really want everyone's favorite things to be what men like in Sci Fi" trope. I don't think this is accurate! I like all sorts of feminist sci-fi. But I loath characters who sit around and don't do anything much while some low-stakes activity is happening and there's a bunch of angst that strikes me as unimportant whining not driving any plot. So, fair enough, I have only encountered that style of writing from female authors. But I don't think it's a particularly damning individual preference. I happened to love Murderbot (and A Memory Called Empire), though, per the original point of discussion for this post.
- jccalhoun 2y ago
  I've read a couple of Chambers' books and found them entertaining but I was frustrated that the books didn't go about answering the big questions that seemed to be at the heart of the world. I really liked A Psalm for the Wild-Built but was hoping to learn more about the robots but then the second one came out and it was a lot of shallow philosophizing on the meaning of life that was more aimed at a level for YA books. There's nothing wrong with YA novels but that's not what I was looking for.
- acdha 2y ago
  Yeah, I’m not saying it’s mandatory to like all of Tor’s authors but it seemed somewhat unlikely that the entire list would be female. I consider Chambers a comfort read, but I wouldn’t say she has all that much in common with, say, Ursula Vernon or Nghi Vo.
- whaaaaat 2y ago
  I absolutely adore Becky Chambers (and Murderbot, incidentally), but I also love low stakes sci-fi. I want more stories about people just... living unremarkable lives in remarkable places. Like, I don't need to read about Batman, but reading about the guy who runs the bodega in Gotham City? Yum yum yum, that's absolutely food for me. I describe Chambers to others as "cozy" sci-fi. That said, I think her different works hit differently. The Monk and Robot series is a really poignant pair of novellas about what it means to be human in a solarpunk world. The Wayfarer series (Long Way to a Small Angry Planet) is slice of life stories of people caught in awkward situations around space. It's like, "What are people on the fringes doing in Star Trek -- not Picard types, but like, construction crews or black market dealers or space communists or people who get stuck at a motel because the highway shuts down. What if Firefly was a little less high energy. I disagree with your assessments a little, but not enough to make a fuss. I think it's absolutely fair to say, "This wasn't to my taste". That said, I'm also queer, poly, and use neopronouns, so I think I may be primed for science fiction that takes the transhumanism language and explores those topics in ways that doesn't treat those topics are scandalous or shocking.
lmm 2y ago
Have they pushed any male authors in that time period? There's a Tor-centric blog network that is pretty explicitly doing affirmative action style promotion of women and minority ethnic group authors. "Safe, media-conglomerate friendly DEI SF" is practically Tor's brand at this point. I'd put e.g. James A Corey in the same bucket (though I can't remember what proportion of them is actually male?) but I honestly can't think of any new male authors from Tor over that period. (They're Cixin Liu's US publisher so you might count him, but he's bad in so many different ways that I don't know I'd put him in the same category). And even beyond publishers, few of the authors being pushed by newspapers/Goodreads/etc. seem to be male.
metaphor 2y ago
Take a look at the Hugo Novella shortlist authors associated with Tor from 2016 to present[1]. I poke at this specifically because Hugo shortlist authors---with the lesser Novella Award serving as gateway---tend to generate exceptional sales figures relative to their peers, and Tor authors have had a statistically overwhelming shortlist presence over the past decade. Filtering on non-female authors: - Dexter Gabriel (P. Djeli Clark) wrote three unrelated novellas, all of which were shortlisted. The Haunting of Tram Car 015 was a warmup to his Nebula-winning novel A Master of Djinn. Arguably the most notable example, but doesn't quite fit the implicit business strategy I was alluding to...more like take random novella shots and further develop the thing that sticks, as opposed to committing two novellas to a strategic theme while reserving the option to follow up. - Victor LaValle got a lot of attention across the board with his novella nomination, but jumped ship to a Penguin Random House imprint for his breakout novel The Changeling that was produced into a television series for Apple TV+. - Kai Ashante Wilson wrote two related LGBT romantasy novellas; one was shortlisted. Sales clearly just wasn't there. - Daniel Polansky...doesn't have a wiki page. Nomination was for a single standalone fantasy novella. - Neon Yang and Nino Cipri identify as "they". Both were nominated for LGBT fantasy novellas; the former's Tensorate appears to have hit better sales metrics relative to the latter's LitenVerse. - Adrian Tchaikovsky was already a reputable science fiction author riding on laurels, so doesn't fit the implicit business strategy; his nomination struck me as more "traditional". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Award_for_Best_Novella#Winners_and_nominees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Award_for_Best_Novella#Wi...