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Murderbot is indeed somewhere between OK and good—personally I’m leaning towards good, but I wouldn’t compare it to a masterclass in short-form writing (like an

Murderbot is indeed somewhere between OK and good—personally I’m leaning towards good, but I wouldn’t compare it to a masterclass in short-form writing (like anything by Sheckley) or a longer piece you could debate for hours afterwards (like A Memory Called Empire, to give a recent example). It doesn’t try to be mind-numbingly flashy, it doesn’t proselytize, it just brings you to alien vistas to meditate on the nature of universal human experience. That is to say, it belongs to a good, storied strain of SF that’s quite rare amongst its modern specimens. I’d rave about that.

finnh 2y ago
A Memory Called Empire was so good! Seems like nobody has heard of it.
- titanomachy 2y ago
  It won the Hugo and was shortlisted for the Nebula, so at least some people have heard of it. Those are the two most famous sci-fi awards. Sometimes I look at their shortlists for ideas on what to read next.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    While I definitely don't agree with the 'sad puppies' movement, I do think that the Hugo has declined in quality recently (especially in terms of their nom slate) for somewhat similar reasons to what they identified
    - titanomachy 2y ago
      I kind of agree. I look at the shortlist for ideas but make my own decision about whether the book sounds interesting to me.
- metaphor 2y ago
  Teixcalaan earned two Hugos for Weller in short order; of course people have heard of it. However, it shouldn't be surprising that it's little known to the type of crowd that Murderbot Diaries is likely to appeal to...perhaps even more so when audiobook is the preferred consumption format for such short novellas as many commenters here have expressed.
metaphor 2y ago
If it's a masterclass in anything, it's proven to be a low-risk, revenue-generating productization formula with options that I've noticed Tor has leaned heavily into for roughly the past decade, e.g. Seanan McGuire, Becky Chambers, Ursula Vernon, Nghi Vo.
- acdha 2y ago
  Do they have any male authors you describe that way?
  - mercutio2 2y ago
    [not the original person you asked the question of] I cannot stand Becky Chambers. I've tried to read her three times, and after about 20 pages I give up. Of the thousand or so novels I've read in the last 20 years, I've done that with about 5 books. One of my friends asked my why I was so vituperative about Becky Chambers. I said it was just so bad. They pointed out that I really, really sounded like I was channeling the "I am a man and I really want everyone's favorite things to be what men like in Sci Fi" trope. I don't think this is accurate! I like all sorts of feminist sci-fi. But I loath characters who sit around and don't do anything much while some low-stakes activity is happening and there's a bunch of angst that strikes me as unimportant whining not driving any plot. So, fair enough, I have only encountered that style of writing from female authors. But I don't think it's a particularly damning individual preference. I happened to love Murderbot (and A Memory Called Empire), though, per the original point of discussion for this post.
    - jccalhoun 2y ago
      I've read a couple of Chambers' books and found them entertaining but I was frustrated that the books didn't go about answering the big questions that seemed to be at the heart of the world. I really liked A Psalm for the Wild-Built but was hoping to learn more about the robots but then the second one came out and it was a lot of shallow philosophizing on the meaning of life that was more aimed at a level for YA books. There's nothing wrong with YA novels but that's not what I was looking for.
shepherdjerred 2y ago
A Memory Called Empire is probably the best book I’ve ever read
- awithrow 2y ago
  What resonated so much for you to like it so much? I remember reading it and thought it was fine but I don't think any of it was particularly memorable.
  - shepherdjerred 2y ago
    I don't really have the time to write a thoughtful comment right now. I loved the world-building and how the author weaved poetry into the narrative. I liked how the world felt unfamiliar at first and gradually the author helped make sense of how politics and individuals fit together. A big part of it might be that I've only read a handful of good sci-fi books so I have less to compare to.
- noch 2y ago
  > A Memory Called Empire is probably the best book I’ve ever read For context, how many books have you read? (I don't intend to sound confrontational, I just want an idea of what level of reader you are so I know how much stock to place in your praise of the novel.)
  - shepherdjerred 2y ago
    I wouldn't consider myself a huge reader, though recently I've discovered that might be because I just haven't consistently found books I like. Since graduating high school ~5 years ago I've probably read ~50 fiction books. I'm a big fan of Dune, Three-Body Problem, The Martian, and other similar sci-fi books.
    - noch 2y ago
      > I just haven't consistently found books I like. I can relate. A lot of people, myself included, seem to be having this problem. The past 20 years of publishing has been weird. Thanks for your response. I enjoy the same kind of sci-fi that you do, so I've got myself a copy of A Memory Called Empire. :-) Thanks again.

finnh 2y ago

A Memory Called Empire was so good! Seems like nobody has heard of it.

titanomachy 2y ago
It won the Hugo and was shortlisted for the Nebula, so at least some people have heard of it. Those are the two most famous sci-fi awards. Sometimes I look at their shortlists for ideas on what to read next.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  While I definitely don't agree with the 'sad puppies' movement, I do think that the Hugo has declined in quality recently (especially in terms of their nom slate) for somewhat similar reasons to what they identified
  - titanomachy 2y ago
    I kind of agree. I look at the shortlist for ideas but make my own decision about whether the book sounds interesting to me.
metaphor 2y ago
Teixcalaan earned two Hugos for Weller in short order; of course people have heard of it. However, it shouldn't be surprising that it's little known to the type of crowd that Murderbot Diaries is likely to appeal to...perhaps even more so when audiobook is the preferred consumption format for such short novellas as many commenters here have expressed.

metaphor 2y ago

If it's a masterclass in anything, it's proven to be a low-risk, revenue-generating productization formula with options that I've noticed Tor has leaned heavily into for roughly the past decade, e.g. Seanan McGuire, Becky Chambers, Ursula Vernon, Nghi Vo.

acdha 2y ago
Do they have any male authors you describe that way?
- mercutio2 2y ago
  [not the original person you asked the question of] I cannot stand Becky Chambers. I've tried to read her three times, and after about 20 pages I give up. Of the thousand or so novels I've read in the last 20 years, I've done that with about 5 books. One of my friends asked my why I was so vituperative about Becky Chambers. I said it was just so bad. They pointed out that I really, really sounded like I was channeling the "I am a man and I really want everyone's favorite things to be what men like in Sci Fi" trope. I don't think this is accurate! I like all sorts of feminist sci-fi. But I loath characters who sit around and don't do anything much while some low-stakes activity is happening and there's a bunch of angst that strikes me as unimportant whining not driving any plot. So, fair enough, I have only encountered that style of writing from female authors. But I don't think it's a particularly damning individual preference. I happened to love Murderbot (and A Memory Called Empire), though, per the original point of discussion for this post.
  - jccalhoun 2y ago
    I've read a couple of Chambers' books and found them entertaining but I was frustrated that the books didn't go about answering the big questions that seemed to be at the heart of the world. I really liked A Psalm for the Wild-Built but was hoping to learn more about the robots but then the second one came out and it was a lot of shallow philosophizing on the meaning of life that was more aimed at a level for YA books. There's nothing wrong with YA novels but that's not what I was looking for.

shepherdjerred 2y ago

A Memory Called Empire is probably the best book I’ve ever read

awithrow 2y ago
What resonated so much for you to like it so much? I remember reading it and thought it was fine but I don't think any of it was particularly memorable.
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  I don't really have the time to write a thoughtful comment right now. I loved the world-building and how the author weaved poetry into the narrative. I liked how the world felt unfamiliar at first and gradually the author helped make sense of how politics and individuals fit together. A big part of it might be that I've only read a handful of good sci-fi books so I have less to compare to.
noch 2y ago
> A Memory Called Empire is probably the best book I’ve ever read For context, how many books have you read? (I don't intend to sound confrontational, I just want an idea of what level of reader you are so I know how much stock to place in your praise of the novel.)
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  I wouldn't consider myself a huge reader, though recently I've discovered that might be because I just haven't consistently found books I like. Since graduating high school ~5 years ago I've probably read ~50 fiction books. I'm a big fan of Dune, Three-Body Problem, The Martian, and other similar sci-fi books.
  - noch 2y ago
    > I just haven't consistently found books I like. I can relate. A lot of people, myself included, seem to be having this problem. The past 20 years of publishing has been weird. Thanks for your response. I enjoy the same kind of sci-fi that you do, so I've got myself a copy of A Memory Called Empire. :-) Thanks again.