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Living in a capitalist society, I feel that this is basically impossible. It's 40+ hours of what you do a week and dictates a lot of what you can do. My friends

Living in a capitalist society, I feel that this is basically impossible. It's 40+ hours of what you do a week and dictates a lot of what you can do. My friends who are working for minimum wage in NYC can be cool people but they aren't flying to Miami for art week like my other friends.

pvg 2y ago
I feel that this is basically impossible It does not appear to be the case for a number of people also living in a capitalist society. My friends who are working for minimum wage in NYC can be cool people but they aren't flying to Miami for art week Maybe you should take them? Trips are a great way to build a friendship or find out it's less than you hoped.
- bradlys 2y ago
  I'm not a charity. I'm not going to create some weird dynamic with friends where I am flying people out to expensive festivals. How often are you giving your friends thousands of dollars? It's not something I'd advocate for.
  - pvg 2y ago
    How often are you giving your friends thousands of dollars? It's not something I'd advocate for. I'm not the one posting on HN about the burdens of having boring friends so a broader view could be a starting point.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    > How often are you giving your friends thousands of dollars? It's not all that rare in my circle of friends, to be honest, even from back before any of us were making serious money. If you include "in kind" gifting rather than just cash -- for instance, inviting a friend to come along on a trip and paying their way -- then this is quite common with my social group. It's mostly to minimize the hassle since, in the long run as everyone does this for each other, it all evens out.
    - bradlys 2y ago
      Right but the point is that these people could never give back because they have no money. So, it's literally giving them a lot of money.
      - JohnFen 2y ago
        Which (in our group) is perfectly fine. There are several friends who are less financially capable than the rest. Nobody cares. Friendship is much more important than money.
  - sabbaticaldev 2y ago
    I’m impressed you even have “friends”. By the way you described it I think you are talking about assets
  - solardev 2y ago
    It's not that black and white, is it? Maybe thousands of dollars is a bit much (unless you're quite wealthy), but I've certainly helped pay for plane tickets, hotels, concert tickets, etc. for my friends (usually ranging from like $50-$300 though, not thousands). It's not like "Hey, I'm rich and I'm just going to buy out the entire concert so we can have a private show", more like "Hey bud, I'm going on this work trip and I have a few days at the end... wanna come for the weekend? You can have the other hotel bed and I'll split the airfare with you." It's fun for both of us that way, and a nice treat that they wouldn't normally be able to afford. You don't have to fly them anywhere fancy, either. "Hey, local art show this weekend and I have a couple of tix! Wanna come? My treat, but drinks on you." It doesn't have to be weird as long as there's no expectation of anything serious in return, you're not giving more than you can afford, and the friend is providing some sort of reciprocity in return – as measured in friendship, not in dollars. Maybe they make a kick-ass friendsgiving dinner with all your favorite things. Maybe they commit (finally) to that D&D campaign you've been trying to get them to join for the last five years. Maybe you've just known them for a decade and you really value their friendship, even though your incomes have drifted apart over the years. It doesn't matter. Good friends are worth it, within reason. Now, that CAN turn exploitative if you let it... but just don't be a doormat. If some person expects you to pay for all their drinks and outings every time you go out and never calls you up unless they need something, well, they're probably using you. But that's a pretty different situation from a genuine friend that you've known and treasured for a while who just happens to make less money than you. If you enjoy their company and can afford to bring them along somewhere, wouldn't it be fun for both of you?
solardev 2y ago
What? How is it impossible? Many people work 40 hour weeks and still have outside friends and interests, at least before they have kids. If you can afford to, why not join your rich friends once every few years to art week, and meet more people there? If you can't or don't want to, find a local art event and invite a few of your poorer friends to go. Generally speaking and to super-stereotype it, I find time spent with my working class friends generally to be more engaging, fun, and casual than with my friends higher up the capitalist ladder. Working class folks don't want to spend any more time thinking about work than necessary, so when they want to relax, they do. The more ambitious types end up higher on the ladder, sure, but sometimes it overtakes their life and becomes the only thing they can chase or think about anymore, and that makes them pretty dull to anybody else. Just don't be that person and actively foster your other friendships and the rest just kinda happens. That might require some tradeoffs in how you time manage, or work-life balance, etc., but nothing worth doing is free, right? Edit: You have to earn enough to support your lifestyle. But your desired lifestyle can be modified. On one hand being poor sucks, no matter how many friends you have. On the other hand being rich and lonely sucks too. I've known people on every part of that spectrum. IMHO somewhere in the middle is the most sustainable and happy, if you can swing it, but it will almost always require compromises. Maybe that means your career will be capped at some level you choose when you can't put in 80-hour weeks for your beloved startup. Maybe that means you can't afford to live in the Bay Area. But I mean, that's all of life... we pick and choose what's important to us, and if you're not happy with those choices, it's OK to reevaluate them and make changes every so often.
tptacek 2y ago
Why fly to Miami for "art week" when you can experience powerful art in everyday life, such as a message board comment that begins as a critique of capitalism and concludes with the difficulty of making friends in a society where so few people can fly to Miami for "art week"?
sabbaticaldev 2y ago
> Living in a capitalist society, I feel that this is basically impossible then you put yourself in a situation where there’s no way out. It is a you problem. If you are ashamed of yourself there’s no solution besides changing yourself.

pvg 2y ago

I feel that this is basically impossible It does not appear to be the case for a number of people also living in a capitalist society. My friends who are working for minimum wage in NYC can be cool people but they aren't flying to Miami for art week Maybe you should take them? Trips are a great way to build a friendship or find out it's less than you hoped.

bradlys 2y ago
I'm not a charity. I'm not going to create some weird dynamic with friends where I am flying people out to expensive festivals. How often are you giving your friends thousands of dollars? It's not something I'd advocate for.
- pvg 2y ago
  How often are you giving your friends thousands of dollars? It's not something I'd advocate for. I'm not the one posting on HN about the burdens of having boring friends so a broader view could be a starting point.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > How often are you giving your friends thousands of dollars? It's not all that rare in my circle of friends, to be honest, even from back before any of us were making serious money. If you include "in kind" gifting rather than just cash -- for instance, inviting a friend to come along on a trip and paying their way -- then this is quite common with my social group. It's mostly to minimize the hassle since, in the long run as everyone does this for each other, it all evens out.
  - bradlys 2y ago
    Right but the point is that these people could never give back because they have no money. So, it's literally giving them a lot of money.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      Which (in our group) is perfectly fine. There are several friends who are less financially capable than the rest. Nobody cares. Friendship is much more important than money.
- sabbaticaldev 2y ago
  I’m impressed you even have “friends”. By the way you described it I think you are talking about assets
- solardev 2y ago
  It's not that black and white, is it? Maybe thousands of dollars is a bit much (unless you're quite wealthy), but I've certainly helped pay for plane tickets, hotels, concert tickets, etc. for my friends (usually ranging from like $50-$300 though, not thousands). It's not like "Hey, I'm rich and I'm just going to buy out the entire concert so we can have a private show", more like "Hey bud, I'm going on this work trip and I have a few days at the end... wanna come for the weekend? You can have the other hotel bed and I'll split the airfare with you." It's fun for both of us that way, and a nice treat that they wouldn't normally be able to afford. You don't have to fly them anywhere fancy, either. "Hey, local art show this weekend and I have a couple of tix! Wanna come? My treat, but drinks on you." It doesn't have to be weird as long as there's no expectation of anything serious in return, you're not giving more than you can afford, and the friend is providing some sort of reciprocity in return – as measured in friendship, not in dollars. Maybe they make a kick-ass friendsgiving dinner with all your favorite things. Maybe they commit (finally) to that D&D campaign you've been trying to get them to join for the last five years. Maybe you've just known them for a decade and you really value their friendship, even though your incomes have drifted apart over the years. It doesn't matter. Good friends are worth it, within reason. Now, that CAN turn exploitative if you let it... but just don't be a doormat. If some person expects you to pay for all their drinks and outings every time you go out and never calls you up unless they need something, well, they're probably using you. But that's a pretty different situation from a genuine friend that you've known and treasured for a while who just happens to make less money than you. If you enjoy their company and can afford to bring them along somewhere, wouldn't it be fun for both of you?

solardev 2y ago

What? How is it impossible? Many people work 40 hour weeks and still have outside friends and interests, at least before they have kids. If you can afford to, why not join your rich friends once every few years to art week, and meet more people there? If you can't or don't want to, find a local art event and invite a few of your poorer friends to go. Generally speaking and to super-stereotype it, I find time spent with my working class friends generally to be more engaging, fun, and casual than with my friends higher up the capitalist ladder. Working class folks don't want to spend any more time thinking about work than necessary, so when they want to relax, they do. The more ambitious types end up higher on the ladder, sure, but sometimes it overtakes their life and becomes the only thing they can chase or think about anymore, and that makes them pretty dull to anybody else. Just don't be that person and actively foster your other friendships and the rest just kinda happens. That might require some tradeoffs in how you time manage, or work-life balance, etc., but nothing worth doing is free, right? Edit: You have to earn enough to support your lifestyle. But your desired lifestyle can be modified. On one hand being poor sucks, no matter how many friends you have. On the other hand being rich and lonely sucks too. I've known people on every part of that spectrum. IMHO somewhere in the middle is the most sustainable and happy, if you can swing it, but it will almost always require compromises. Maybe that means your career will be capped at some level you choose when you can't put in 80-hour weeks for your beloved startup. Maybe that means you can't afford to live in the Bay Area. But I mean, that's all of life... we pick and choose what's important to us, and if you're not happy with those choices, it's OK to reevaluate them and make changes every so often.

tptacek 2y ago

Why fly to Miami for "art week" when you can experience powerful art in everyday life, such as a message board comment that begins as a critique of capitalism and concludes with the difficulty of making friends in a society where so few people can fly to Miami for "art week"?

sabbaticaldev 2y ago

> Living in a capitalist society, I feel that this is basically impossible then you put yourself in a situation where there’s no way out. It is a you problem. If you are ashamed of yourself there’s no solution besides changing yourself.