4 ms·

It is more about hardware / software bundling than the openness of the source code. Windows is as proprietary as it gets. I was able to upgrade my desktop PC fr

by okanat 2y ago

It is more about hardware / software bundling than the openness of the source code. Windows is as proprietary as it gets. I was able to upgrade my desktop PC from 2008 to Windows 10. It required removing quite a bit bloatware but it works. Actually, I have a negative example for FOSS for you. I have a laptop with an Nvidia GPU on it from 2012. I cannot use it under Linux since Linux world is terrible at API / ABI stability. So Nvidia driver has stopped working. I can still use the laptop fully functional with Windows 11.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> Actually, I have a negative example for FOSS for you. I have a laptop with an Nvidia GPU on it from 2012. I cannot use it under Linux since Linux world is terrible at API / ABI stability. So Nvidia driver has stopped working. Your example of FOSS not working... is the proprietary nvidia driver breaking? Even though it would almost certainly work if your card were supported by the open source drivers?
- immibis 2y ago
  The proprietary Nvidia driver works fine. Linux from this decade refuses to work with it. Linux broke it, not Nvidia.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    Linux is very explicit (and always has been) about not having a stable driver API or ABI; if nvidia tries to target that unstable interface, they are absolutely responsible for the result.
    - immibis 2y ago
      If I upgrade Windows, and it breaks my line-of-business program, whose fault is it? Hint: It's the one that changed.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        If your application uses raw NT syscall (which Microsoft explicitly says is an unstable interface) and an upgrade breaks it, then the application certainly is at fault. Like, this isn't some incidental case where you accidentally depended on unspecified behavior or an official interface broke; if there's a big warning on an interface that says this thing is unstable and will break your code, and it breaks your code, that's definitely on you.
        immibis 2y ago
        If there was no stable interface to Windows, that would also be Microsoft's fault.

by okanat 2y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

> Actually, I have a negative example for FOSS for you. I have a laptop with an Nvidia GPU on it from 2012. I cannot use it under Linux since Linux world is terrible at API / ABI stability. So Nvidia driver has stopped working. Your example of FOSS not working... is the proprietary nvidia driver breaking? Even though it would almost certainly work if your card were supported by the open source drivers?

immibis 2y ago
The proprietary Nvidia driver works fine. Linux from this decade refuses to work with it. Linux broke it, not Nvidia.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  Linux is very explicit (and always has been) about not having a stable driver API or ABI; if nvidia tries to target that unstable interface, they are absolutely responsible for the result.
  - immibis 2y ago
    If I upgrade Windows, and it breaks my line-of-business program, whose fault is it? Hint: It's the one that changed.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      If your application uses raw NT syscall (which Microsoft explicitly says is an unstable interface) and an upgrade breaks it, then the application certainly is at fault. Like, this isn't some incidental case where you accidentally depended on unspecified behavior or an official interface broke; if there's a big warning on an interface that says this thing is unstable and will break your code, and it breaks your code, that's definitely on you.
      - immibis 2y ago
        If there was no stable interface to Windows, that would also be Microsoft's fault.