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As far as I see, no one is mentioning sustainability AKA environmental impact or 'green hosting' here. Don't you care about that? I believe that Hetzner data c

by esher 2y ago

As far as I see, no one is mentioning sustainability AKA environmental impact or 'green hosting' here. Don't you care about that? I believe that Hetzner data centers in Europe (Germany, Finland) are powered by green energy, but not the locations in US.

huijzer 2y ago
Data centers used 460 TWh, or about 2% of total worldwide electricity use, according to IEA in 2022. In comparison, 30% of total energy (energy! Not electricity) goes to transport! As another point of comparison, transport in Sweden in 2022 used 137 TWh [1]. So the same order of magnitude as total datacenter energy use. And datacenters are powered by electricity which increases the chance that it comes from renewable energy. Conversely, the chance that diesel comes from a renewable source is zero. So can we please stop talking about data center energy use? It’s a narrative that the media is currently pushing but as so many things it makes no sense. It’s not the thing we should be focusing on if we want to decrease fossil fuel use. [1]: https://www.energimyndigheten.se/en/energysystem/energy-consumption/ https://www.energimyndigheten.se/en/energysystem/energy-cons...
- esher 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I care about it. I run a small hosting company. Sure, there are many low hanging fruits for fighting CO2 emissions that should be tackled first. I am also hopeful that energy from directly available renewables will be the most economic choice for building data centers anyhow, so that this is not a matter of believes any more. But on the other side, to bring down CO2 levels, fast change everywhere is required. As far as I see data center energy consumption continues to grow, specifically with AI. If I am not mistaken, data centers produce more CO2 than aviation. And sure, most 'green hosting' is probably 'green washing', yet I would still support and link initiatives such as: https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/ https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/
- davedx 2y ago
  2% of total worldwide electricity use in 2022 is a shit load of electricity and emissions. Your argument is the same as those who argue "our country shouldn't care about emissions when China is the biggest emitter". If you dive into a detailed breakdown of emissions you'll find that it's a complex hierarchy of categories. You can't just fix "all of transport" or treat it like a "low hanging fruit", just look at how much time it's taken for EV penetration to be in any way significant; look at how much of transport emissions are from aviation or shipping or other components. Any energy use that's measurable in whole percentage points of global emissions needs addressing. That includes data centers.
  - alt227 2y ago
    > our country shouldn't care about emissions when China is the biggest emitter To be fair, until China does something about their emissions, the rest of us are just pissing in the ocean.
    - blitzar 2y ago
      Don't shit in your own back yard, no matter what other people like to do.
    - doix 2y ago
      Eh, per capita China has lower emissions than the US whilst manufacturing and exporting significantly more. Everything is intertwined and tightly coupled, such simple statements are rarely accurate.
      - alt227 2y ago
        US need to sort their shit out as well.
    - sofixa 2y ago
      China is actively working on reducing their emissions (they're building tons of nuclear and renewables, and have long term plans for both), and a lot of theirs are to manufacture stuff the whole world uses.
preisschild 2y ago
They probably just use the local power grid. You can use ElectricityMaps to look up the average carbon intensity per kWh of those grids https://app.electricitymaps.com/ https://app.electricitymaps.com/
- kuschku 2y ago
  You can choose which electricity company provides the amount of power to the grid that you're using. While you don't get "your" electricity, overall you can still affect the carbon balance of the electricity that's produced in your name. Hetzner is using 100% green hydro and wind power for that, which is as sustainable as any grid-connected company can be.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > They probably just use the local power grid A lot of EU datacenter providers specifically pick green electricity providers/sources, and pride themselves on it, and use it in advertising their sustainability. Scaleway in particular are 100% no-CO2 (they have it easy, most of their DCs are in France where it's easy to be fully nuclear+renewable). Hetzner are the same.
postepowanieadm 2y ago
> I believe that Hetzner data centers in Europe (Germany, Finland) are powered by green energy, but not the locations in US. Green lignite.
- kuschku 2y ago
  While fans of nuclear energy like to meme about the German power grid, Hetzner is — in so far as anyone with a grid connection can be — powered by 100% green wind and hydro energy. You can see the paperwork here: - https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/oekostrom-zertifikat-2025.pdf https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/oekostrom-zertifikat-... - https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Oomi-sertifikaatti-tuuli+vesi-Hetzner-2024-eng.pdf https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Oomi-sertifikaatti-tuuli+vesi...
  - esher 2y ago
    This does not apply to Hetzner US data centers, as far as I know. That's just for Germany and Finland.

by esher 2y ago

huijzer 2y ago

Data centers used 460 TWh, or about 2% of total worldwide electricity use, according to IEA in 2022. In comparison, 30% of total energy (energy! Not electricity) goes to transport! As another point of comparison, transport in Sweden in 2022 used 137 TWh [1]. So the same order of magnitude as total datacenter energy use. And datacenters are powered by electricity which increases the chance that it comes from renewable energy. Conversely, the chance that diesel comes from a renewable source is zero. So can we please stop talking about data center energy use? It’s a narrative that the media is currently pushing but as so many things it makes no sense. It’s not the thing we should be focusing on if we want to decrease fossil fuel use. [1]: https://www.energimyndigheten.se/en/energysystem/energy-consumption/ https://www.energimyndigheten.se/en/energysystem/energy-cons...

esher 2y ago
Thanks for sharing. I care about it. I run a small hosting company. Sure, there are many low hanging fruits for fighting CO2 emissions that should be tackled first. I am also hopeful that energy from directly available renewables will be the most economic choice for building data centers anyhow, so that this is not a matter of believes any more. But on the other side, to bring down CO2 levels, fast change everywhere is required. As far as I see data center energy consumption continues to grow, specifically with AI. If I am not mistaken, data centers produce more CO2 than aviation. And sure, most 'green hosting' is probably 'green washing', yet I would still support and link initiatives such as: https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/ https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/
davedx 2y ago
2% of total worldwide electricity use in 2022 is a shit load of electricity and emissions. Your argument is the same as those who argue "our country shouldn't care about emissions when China is the biggest emitter". If you dive into a detailed breakdown of emissions you'll find that it's a complex hierarchy of categories. You can't just fix "all of transport" or treat it like a "low hanging fruit", just look at how much time it's taken for EV penetration to be in any way significant; look at how much of transport emissions are from aviation or shipping or other components. Any energy use that's measurable in whole percentage points of global emissions needs addressing. That includes data centers.
- alt227 2y ago
  > our country shouldn't care about emissions when China is the biggest emitter To be fair, until China does something about their emissions, the rest of us are just pissing in the ocean.
  - blitzar 2y ago
    Don't shit in your own back yard, no matter what other people like to do.
  - doix 2y ago
    Eh, per capita China has lower emissions than the US whilst manufacturing and exporting significantly more. Everything is intertwined and tightly coupled, such simple statements are rarely accurate.
    - alt227 2y ago
      US need to sort their shit out as well.
  - sofixa 2y ago
    China is actively working on reducing their emissions (they're building tons of nuclear and renewables, and have long term plans for both), and a lot of theirs are to manufacture stuff the whole world uses.

preisschild 2y ago

They probably just use the local power grid. You can use ElectricityMaps to look up the average carbon intensity per kWh of those grids https://app.electricitymaps.com/ https://app.electricitymaps.com/

kuschku 2y ago
You can choose which electricity company provides the amount of power to the grid that you're using. While you don't get "your" electricity, overall you can still affect the carbon balance of the electricity that's produced in your name. Hetzner is using 100% green hydro and wind power for that, which is as sustainable as any grid-connected company can be.
sofixa 2y ago
> They probably just use the local power grid A lot of EU datacenter providers specifically pick green electricity providers/sources, and pride themselves on it, and use it in advertising their sustainability. Scaleway in particular are 100% no-CO2 (they have it easy, most of their DCs are in France where it's easy to be fully nuclear+renewable). Hetzner are the same.

postepowanieadm 2y ago

> I believe that Hetzner data centers in Europe (Germany, Finland) are powered by green energy, but not the locations in US. Green lignite.

kuschku 2y ago
While fans of nuclear energy like to meme about the German power grid, Hetzner is — in so far as anyone with a grid connection can be — powered by 100% green wind and hydro energy. You can see the paperwork here: - https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/oekostrom-zertifikat-2025.pdf https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/oekostrom-zertifikat-... - https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Oomi-sertifikaatti-tuuli+vesi-Hetzner-2024-eng.pdf https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Oomi-sertifikaatti-tuuli+vesi...
- esher 2y ago
  This does not apply to Hetzner US data centers, as far as I know. That's just for Germany and Finland.