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Star Trek's McCoy delivers a grim description in "The City on the Edge of Forever", about how primitive 20th century medicine once relied on crude and bloody pr

Star Trek's McCoy delivers a grim description in "The City on the Edge of Forever", about how primitive 20th century medicine once relied on crude and bloody procedures. I think once lab-grown proteins are common in markets across the world, ethicists and historians will be more free to point to these last 50 years as the most horrific, in terms of inhumane treatment of animals on an amazing scale (I just looked this cheery tidbit up, 166,000 pigs are slaughtered per hour, year round, worldwide.) I'm 100% complicit in this. I eat meat, but for some reason as I get older it's harder for me to keep a comfortable distance from this issue.

euroderf 2y ago
I'm with you on this. For me it was reading Peter Singer's "Animal Rights" that made the difference.
hypercube33 2y ago
I feel the same way, but I grew up on a small farm. I've got a thing where I can make peace with it if the animals are treated well or as my friend calls it "one bad day policy". I drive by huge mega farms where the animals never go outside and they smell horrid (I love the smell of a small farm, but yes, they all have a smell) and can't really feel good about buying meat or dairy from these places.
metta2uall 2y ago
Thankfully it's never been easier to find high-quality info about vegan nutrition and recipe ideas.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > it's never been easier to find high-quality info about vegan nutrition and recipe ideas Veganism is probably too far for the broad population. Ovo-lacto vegetarianism, where you're purchasing eggs and dairy from a specific farm (or reputable brand), is more accessible and close in terms of ethical and environmental impact.
  - kelipso 2y ago
    That would work for 8 billion people? I doubt that.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > that would work for 8 billion people? What’s “that”? What do you mean by “work”? If you mean can we sell 8 billion people on ovo-lacto vegetarianism, I don’t know. What I know is it’s easier than selling even one billion on veganism. If you mean can we literally maintain the supply chains the answer is obviously yes. We already produce enough food for everyone in a world where 6+ billion eat meat.
      - kelipso 2y ago
        > purchasing eggs and dairy from a specific farm (or reputable brand) What does this even mean anyway? Current system works because of being able to buy from multiple sources through the global supply chains and commoditizing food. Specific farms won't work for 8 billion people.
  - metta2uall 2y ago
    For now veganism is outside the Overton window but this is changing, and it needs to, because it's actually much better & cheaper than ovo-lacto vegetarianism even via a "better" commercial farm - they still get rid of the newly born males, they usually get rid of the older "less productive" females, feeding animals is still an inefficient use of land & energy, and cows still generate methane..
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > this is changing, and it needs to, because it's actually much better & cheaper Cheaper doesn’t mean better. And perfect is the enemy of the good. We are generations away from ovo-lacto vegetarian dominance, let alone veganism. If I were tasked with defeating vegetarianism, I’d push a vegan or nothing mantra.
Suppafly 2y ago
> (I just looked this cheery tidbit up, 166,000 pigs are slaughtered per hour, year round, worldwide.) Man that hardly seems believable.
- nom 2y ago
  in relative terms , that's one pig per human every ~5.5 years

euroderf 2y ago

I'm with you on this. For me it was reading Peter Singer's "Animal Rights" that made the difference.

hypercube33 2y ago

I feel the same way, but I grew up on a small farm. I've got a thing where I can make peace with it if the animals are treated well or as my friend calls it "one bad day policy". I drive by huge mega farms where the animals never go outside and they smell horrid (I love the smell of a small farm, but yes, they all have a smell) and can't really feel good about buying meat or dairy from these places.

metta2uall 2y ago

Thankfully it's never been easier to find high-quality info about vegan nutrition and recipe ideas.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> it's never been easier to find high-quality info about vegan nutrition and recipe ideas Veganism is probably too far for the broad population. Ovo-lacto vegetarianism, where you're purchasing eggs and dairy from a specific farm (or reputable brand), is more accessible and close in terms of ethical and environmental impact.
- kelipso 2y ago
  That would work for 8 billion people? I doubt that.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > that would work for 8 billion people? What’s “that”? What do you mean by “work”? If you mean can we sell 8 billion people on ovo-lacto vegetarianism, I don’t know. What I know is it’s easier than selling even one billion on veganism. If you mean can we literally maintain the supply chains the answer is obviously yes. We already produce enough food for everyone in a world where 6+ billion eat meat.
    - kelipso 2y ago
      > purchasing eggs and dairy from a specific farm (or reputable brand) What does this even mean anyway? Current system works because of being able to buy from multiple sources through the global supply chains and commoditizing food. Specific farms won't work for 8 billion people.
- metta2uall 2y ago
  For now veganism is outside the Overton window but this is changing, and it needs to, because it's actually much better & cheaper than ovo-lacto vegetarianism even via a "better" commercial farm - they still get rid of the newly born males, they usually get rid of the older "less productive" females, feeding animals is still an inefficient use of land & energy, and cows still generate methane..
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > this is changing, and it needs to, because it's actually much better & cheaper Cheaper doesn’t mean better. And perfect is the enemy of the good. We are generations away from ovo-lacto vegetarian dominance, let alone veganism. If I were tasked with defeating vegetarianism, I’d push a vegan or nothing mantra.

Suppafly 2y ago

> (I just looked this cheery tidbit up, 166,000 pigs are slaughtered per hour, year round, worldwide.) Man that hardly seems believable.

nom 2y ago
in relative terms , that's one pig per human every ~5.5 years