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Sometimes I think they should have just offered this money as startup capital to new ventures. What's the advantage of Intel here versus just going with Intel e

Sometimes I think they should have just offered this money as startup capital to new ventures. What's the advantage of Intel here versus just going with Intel engineers?

wmf 2y ago
A startup would need $50B or more to develop a 2 nm fab.
- asdasdsddd 2y ago
  Doesn't every foundry scale up from easier chips anyways.
- piva00 2y ago
  Very likely more if applying Gall's law, no startup would be able to create a complex system like a 2nm fab from the ground-up, it'd need many intermediate simpler systems (aka other fabs) to research, and learn how to apply those processes to scale up into a complex system like that.
LittleTimothy 2y ago
You need to look at how this market really operates. You have massive massive up front capital investment, you spent tens of billions of dollars designing a chip plant, and then billions more actually building one, and at the end of that 10 year long multi-billion dollar process you get 1 chip out of it. If that chip is better than your competitors the entire fabless semi-conductor industry is going to trip over itself bidding up your capacity and turning your investment massively profitable. If your chip is worse than your competitors you have to sell capacity at practically any price to recoup any possible return. And whoever did a good job? Well they've got billions to plough into the next process node. The company that did a bad job? Well now they need to go out into the market and try and get funding to make that entire bet again - but this time with a track record of failure. What's the likelihood a company coming from 0 can make all that work, with no existing assets to secure debt financing for the investment? It's also important to understand what the US is paying for here. They're not paying Intel to make chips, they're paying Intel to make chips in the US as a geopolitical strategy. Intel will make these chips either way, but this action from the US means that Intel is continuing with their US fab plans whilst for example, dumping their EU plans.

Sometimes I think they should have just offered this money as startup capital to new ventures. What's the advantage of Intel here versus just going with Intel engineers?

wmf 2y ago

A startup would need $50B or more to develop a 2 nm fab.

asdasdsddd 2y ago
Doesn't every foundry scale up from easier chips anyways.
piva00 2y ago
Very likely more if applying Gall's law, no startup would be able to create a complex system like a 2nm fab from the ground-up, it'd need many intermediate simpler systems (aka other fabs) to research, and learn how to apply those processes to scale up into a complex system like that.

LittleTimothy 2y ago

You need to look at how this market really operates. You have massive massive up front capital investment, you spent tens of billions of dollars designing a chip plant, and then billions more actually building one, and at the end of that 10 year long multi-billion dollar process you get 1 chip out of it. If that chip is better than your competitors the entire fabless semi-conductor industry is going to trip over itself bidding up your capacity and turning your investment massively profitable. If your chip is worse than your competitors you have to sell capacity at practically any price to recoup any possible return. And whoever did a good job? Well they've got billions to plough into the next process node. The company that did a bad job? Well now they need to go out into the market and try and get funding to make that entire bet again - but this time with a track record of failure. What's the likelihood a company coming from 0 can make all that work, with no existing assets to secure debt financing for the investment? It's also important to understand what the US is paying for here. They're not paying Intel to make chips, they're paying Intel to make chips in the US as a geopolitical strategy. Intel will make these chips either way, but this action from the US means that Intel is continuing with their US fab plans whilst for example, dumping their EU plans.